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  1. #11
    mxreader is offline Member
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    Default Re: Can the verb 'to be' take an object?

    God mórgon! You are up early....

    Quote Originally Posted by Kondorosi View Post
    What you call a C locative Quirk calls an obligatory adverbial (obligatory predicate adjunct).
    This makes sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kondorosi View Post
    What you call a C locative is denoted by 'A' in valency patterns in his "Blue Bible".
    So, 'A'= obligatory adjunct and A=Adjunct

    Quote Originally Posted by Kondorosi View Post
    CGEL differentiates between complements and obligatory adverbials in CopV complementation; however, it states that some obligatory adverbs can function as complements (The game is over (= complete). = SVC). It makes no mention of C_locatives, though. Terminology.
    This doesn't make sense, I have to keep his terminology at arms length.

    Tack

  2. #12
    Kondorosi is offline Banned
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    Default Re: Can the verb 'to be' take an object?

    Quote Originally Posted by mxreader View Post
    This doesn't make sense
    To you. Would you explain what is not acceptable to you here?

    Quote Originally Posted by mxreader View Post
    I have to keep his terminology at arms length.

    Tack
    Var Sa God. You pays your money and you takes your choice.

    So, 'A'= obligatory adjunct and A=Adjunct
    Is this what an educated native would infer from my posts? My communication skills are not consummate yet, apparently.

  3. #13
    Kondorosi is offline Banned
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    Default Re: Can the verb 'to be' take an object?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kondorosi View Post
    CGEL differentiates between complements and obligatory adverbials in CopV complementation; however, it states that some obligatory adverbs can function as complements:
    By obligatory adverbs I did not mean obligatory adverbials. By them I meant adverbials that are not obligatory adverbials but still obligatorily present. Obligatory adverbials are those which are obligatorily present plus behave adverbially from a semantic point of view.
    A is realized by an obligatory pred. adjunct, an obligatory adverbial.
    C is realized by a noun, an adjective, or an adverb that is obligatorily present and behaves like an adjective in all? respects.

    Obligatory adverbials assign an attribute of location (literal or metaphorical?) to the subject, but not all adverbials that are obligatorily present behave so. Consequently, not all adverbials that are obligatorily present are called obligatory adverbials.
    Obligatory adverbial ≠ adverb that is obligatorily present

    Obligatory adverbial is a subset of adverbs that are obligatorily present: All obligatory adverbials are obligatorily present, but not all obligatorily present adverbials are obligatory adverbials.

    Now you see my point I trust.


    Accoring to CGEL:
    I am behind (scedule) in my rent. = SVC
    I feel under the weather. = SV(A?C?)

    This isn't clear-cut (to me), indeed. I think grammar books serve the purpose of giving a general direction which you can abandon if your own judgment that grammars have developed so requires.

    According to me:
    I am behind (scedule) in my rent. = SVC
    I feel under the weather. = SVC
    Last edited by Kondorosi; 16-Jan-2010 at 06:45.

  4. #14
    mxreader is offline Member
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    Default Re: Can the verb 'to be' take an object?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kondorosi View Post
    Now you see my point I trust.
    Now... where is my barge pole?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kondorosi View Post
    According to me:
    I am behind (scedule) in my rent. = SVC
    I feel under the weather. = SVC
    Agreed, but now try these:

    We flew to Stockholm.
    He works in Lund.

  5. #15
    Kondorosi is offline Banned
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    Default Re: Can the verb 'to be' take an object?

    Quote Originally Posted by mxreader View Post
    Now... where is my barge pole?
    Do you want to nudge my argument with that?


    Quote Originally Posted by mxreader View Post
    Agreed, but now try these:

    We flew to Stockholm.
    He works in Lund.
    SV*2
    Last edited by Kondorosi; 17-Jan-2010 at 05:55.

  6. #16
    mxreader is offline Member
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    Default Re: Can the verb 'to be' take an object?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kondorosi View Post
    SV*2
    Confounding notation, I presume....
    SVC
    SVC

    but how about
    SVC_loc
    SVA

    For teaching purposes, I think I should leave out the idea of Adjuncts until later/never (I am still not convinced that they are useful distinctions), and just call them both complements.

  7. #17
    Kondorosi is offline Banned
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    Default Re: Can the verb 'to be' take an object?

    Quote Originally Posted by mxreader View Post
    Confounding notation, I presume....
    SVC
    SVC

    but how about
    SVC_loc
    SVA

    For teaching purposes, I think I should leave out the idea of Adjuncts until later/never (I am still not convinced that they are useful distinctions), and just call them both complements.
    Both sentences are SV and I am going to show you why.

    We flew to Stockholm.
    We flew to Stockholm.
    He works in Lund.
    He works in Lund.

    A simple sentence consists of a single independent clause, which may be one of seven types. The types differ according to whether one or more elements are obligatorily present in addition to S and V.

  8. #18
    mxreader is offline Member
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    Default Re: Can the verb 'to be' take an object?

    I don't understand your explanation, are you saying that

    "We flew to Stockholm" is the same as "We flew"? both SV?

    If "We flew" is SV, then what of "to Stockholm"?

  9. #19
    Kondorosi is offline Banned
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    Default Re: Can the verb 'to be' take an object?

    Quote Originally Posted by mxreader View Post
    If "We flew" is SV, then what of "to Stockholm"?
    It is an optional adverb, an optional predicate adjunct of direction.

  10. #20
    Kondorosi is offline Banned
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    Default Re: Can the verb 'to be' take an object?

    Quote Originally Posted by mxreader View Post
    "We flew to Stockholm" is the same as "We flew"? both SV?
    Same in terms of what obligatory elements are present.

    SVA means V = CopV. 'flew' is not a CopV; it is an I(ntransitive verb). I's can only occur in SV.

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