Results 1 to 7 of 7
  1. #1
    Mehrgan's Avatar
    Mehrgan is offline Key Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Other
      • Native Language:
      • Persian
      • Home Country:
      • Iran
      • Current Location:
      • Iran
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    1,571
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default About subjunctives

    Hi,

    Could anyone possibly tell me what happens to the subjunctive verbs in a passive voice?

    A. Police demanded that the neighbours (should) stay in.
    B. The neighbours were demanded TO stay in. (???)

    Should this "TO" be omitted? Thanks in advance

  2. #2
    Mehrgan's Avatar
    Mehrgan is offline Key Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Other
      • Native Language:
      • Persian
      • Home Country:
      • Iran
      • Current Location:
      • Iran
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    1,571
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: About subjunctives

    And, how about the samples below. Do they sound ok to native speakers?


    "We were recommended wait more."
    "We were recommended to wait more."
    "We were recommended (that) we should wait more."

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    96
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: About subjunctives

    These would be my preference:

    A. Police demanded that the neighbours stay in.

    B. The neighbours were ordered to stay in. (not "demanded")

    Note that "neighbour" is British spelling; in America, it would be "neighbor".

    As for second group:

    "We were recommended wait more." No.
    "We were advised to wait longer." Not "recommended", and "longer" is preferable to "more".
    "We were advised that we should wait longer."

  4. #4
    Mehrgan's Avatar
    Mehrgan is offline Key Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Other
      • Native Language:
      • Persian
      • Home Country:
      • Iran
      • Current Location:
      • Iran
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    1,571
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: About subjunctives

    Quote Originally Posted by rlfwood View Post
    These would be my preference:

    A. Police demanded that the neighbours stay in.

    B. The neighbours were ordered to stay in. (not "demanded")

    Note that "neighbour" is British spelling; in America, it would be "neighbor".

    As for second group:

    "We were recommended wait more." No.
    "We were advised to wait longer." Not "recommended", and "longer" is preferable to "more".
    "We were advised that we should wait longer."

    Such a valuable help, dear rlfwood.

    Can I conclude that subjunctive verbs had better not be used in a passive voice as there are more suitable verbs? Many thanks again.

  5. #5
    philo2009 is offline Key Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Academic
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • UK
      • Current Location:
      • Japan
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    1,507
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: About subjunctives

    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrgan View Post
    Such a valuable help, dear rlfwood.

    Can I conclude that subjunctive verbs had better not be used in a passive voice as there are more suitable verbs? Many thanks again.
    Not necessarily. You could perfectly well say, e.g.

    It was vital that the problem be solved quickly.

    containing passive subjunctive VP 'be solved'.

    However, where the original construction does not (naturally) either permit or require a subjunctive form, but rather an infinitive (order smb. to do smth., etc.), then we naturally would not attempt to use a subjunctive in the corresponding passive!

    Just ensure that you do not inadvertently mix constructions in the process of making the active-to-passive conversion. The correctly formed (if somewhat unidiomatic) passive corresponding to your original sentence

    Police demanded that the neighbours stay in.

    would be

    It was demanded (by the police) that the neighbours stay in.

    Note that the subjunctive verb in the subordinate clause in such cases is entirely unaffected by the transformation, which concerns only the main clause.

  6. #6
    Mehrgan's Avatar
    Mehrgan is offline Key Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Other
      • Native Language:
      • Persian
      • Home Country:
      • Iran
      • Current Location:
      • Iran
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    1,571
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: About subjunctives

    Quote Originally Posted by philo2009 View Post
    Not necessarily. You could perfectly well say, e.g.

    It was vital that the problem be solved quickly.

    containing passive subjunctive VP 'be solved'.

    However, where the original construction does not (naturally) either permit or require a subjunctive form, but rather an infinitive (order smb. to do smth., etc.), then we naturally would not attempt to use a subjunctive in the corresponding passive!

    Just ensure that you do not inadvertently mix constructions in the process of making the active-to-passive conversion. The correctly formed (if somewhat unidiomatic) passive corresponding to your original sentence

    Police demanded that the neighbours stay in.

    would be

    It was demanded (by the police) that the neighbours stay in.

    Note that the subjunctive verb in the subordinate clause in such cases is entirely unaffected by the transformation, which concerns only the main clause.


    Many thanks.
    I just wish you knew how odd I feel when I don't get why we can't say "The neighbours were demanded to stay in."...actually, sometimes it gets confusing to understand such points! Wish you luck...

  7. #7
    mmasny is offline Key Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Student or Learner
      • Native Language:
      • Polish
      • Home Country:
      • Poland
      • Current Location:
      • Poland
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    1,704
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: About subjunctives

    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrgan View Post
    Many thanks.
    I just wish you knew how odd I feel when I don't get why we can't say "The neighbours were demanded to stay in."...actually, sometimes it gets confusing to understand such points! Wish you luck...
    I'll try to explain it to you. If neighbours could be demanded, it would mean that someone could demand neighbours. And one can't demand neighbours, one can demand something from neighbours.
    It can be confusing, because of this way of thinking: 'demand' ~ 'ask', so 'demanded' ~ 'asked'. But these two words are used differently:
    He asked me for some money.
    So,
    I was asked for some money.
    But:
    He demanded some money from me.
    Now, you can't say:
    I was demanded some money.
    This is the money that was demanded, not you.
    You can say:
    Some money was demanded from me.

Similar Threads

  1. [Grammar] If I "were" OR "was" OR "am" you....
    By Fairylord in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 26-Sep-2009, 16:27
  2. subjunctives
    By batheeb in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 02-Oct-2008, 18:26

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Hotchalk