Where has Kodorosi gone?

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Frank Antonson

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This forum is just not the same without Kondorosi. I hope he reappears soon!

In the meantime, COMPETITIVE sentence diagramming has resumed with my 14-year-old students. It's weird. They love to compete, but are terrible at it. I must change the second thing.
 

Frank Antonson

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Thanks Tidol!
 

Kondorosi

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Hello Frank,

Those adverbials are killing me. I have realized that all I know about English grammar stands on flimsy legs, which has has blown the winds out of my sails. I am seriously thinking of giving up studying languages. I feel let down, angry, and frustrated. I am in the doldrums now. Maybe I will work up a head of steam and raise from my ashes, but that is not very likely.
How are 'you, Frank? How is your hip? Ist alles in Ordnung?
 

Frank Antonson

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I'm fine, thanks.

Don't give up. I know of a Shakespearean quote, which I will find, that can support my thought.

What is the problem with adverbials? Give me an example.

If you are referring to what are sometimes called "separable prepositions" (separable from the verb), Reed-Kellogg, I think, purposely avoided them when they could, but when they could not, treated them as adverbs.
 

Kondorosi

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I'm fine, thanks.

Don't give up. I know of a Shakespearean quote, which I will find, that can support my thought.

What is the problem with adverbials? Give me an example.

If you are referring to what are sometimes called "separable prepositions" (separable from the verb), Reed-Kellogg, I think, purposely avoided them when they could, but when they could not, treated them as adverbs.

I have a lot of problems with adverbials. Their grammatical roles are driving me around the bend.

[Only I] can talk to you.
I [can only] talk to you.

They can't look the same with RK.

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https://www.usingenglish.com/forum/ask-teacher/114240-what-do-phrases-bold-mean.html

Also this. Why disjunct and subjunct? .... and many more things. Adjunct subjunct disjunct: crazy things.
 

Frank Antonson

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In the first, "Only" modifies "I". In the second "only" modifies "can talk".
RK would diagram them differently without deciding on what they should be called.
 

Frank Antonson

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"Disjunct" is not a grammatical term I am familiar with, but I would guess it means unconnected.
"Subjunct" is also not a grammatical I am familiar with (though I am with "subjunctive"). I would guess that it means connected but under the control of something.
This may go back to the Biritsh vs USA differential in terms.
They may have to be regarded as distinct languages, or at least dialects, for describing syntax, either of which you may speak but which you do not mix.
 

Frank Antonson

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Don't go crazy! Hang on! For the sake of RK posterity.
 

Kondorosi

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In the first, "Only" modifies "I". In the second "only" modifies "can talk".
RK would diagram them differently without deciding on what they should be called.

Adverbials do not modify clause elements other than V's. Quite often they do not modify anything at all. Adverbs modify adverbs or adjectives.
This is my problem. 'Only' can't modify a noun.
 

Tdol

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Adverbs, apparently, also modify whole sentences.
 

Frank Antonson

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I believe that if you looked "only" up in a dictionary it would be described as an adjective as well as an adverb.

It's like the word "no" in German is "kein" when it is an adjective.
 

Kondorosi

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Adverbs, apparently, also modify whole sentences.

Weatherwise, the outlook is dismal.
Only her sister visited her in hospital.

They sometimes do. The referential scope of an adverb may focus on different clause elements. But do adverbials always modify something?

This is one possible solution to the problem. However, there are others.

However is an adverbial, a conjunctive adverb. What does it modify? Does it modify something?
 

Kondorosi

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I believe that if you looked "only" up in a dictionary it would be described as an adjective as well as an adverb.

It's like the word "no" in German is "kein" when it is an adjective.

[Only I] can talk to you.
[Nur ich] kann mit dir sprechen.

adv. ;-)
 

Frank Antonson

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Well, I would say the same about "nur". It is acting as an adjective because it is modifying a pronoun.
Have you looked either of these words up in dictionaries?
 

indonesia

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This is my problem. 'Only' can't modify a noun.

I'm hardly a fountain of knowledge, (as you well know :lol:), but how about this sentence Mr. K.

We were on the edge of our seats watching the climax of the the match, only football can do that to us.

I suppose 'only' is acting as an adjective, but it is describing a noun, i think! :-?
 

Kondorosi

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CGEL by Quirk et al. says 'only' in that sentence is a focusing subjunct, an adverbial. The book gives a very comprehensive treatment of the different adverbials and their grammatical functions.
 
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Frank Antonson

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I have looked "only" up in the dictionary, and it is considered sometimes as an adjective (like "few"). It is an adjective in the sentence you are considering.
 
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