I am become death?

[maral55]

Hi,

These words are from a poem.

I am become death, the destroyer of the worlds.

Does that mean I am the death?

 

[susiedqq]

If you research the person who said this line, I think you will understand it more.

 

[Raymott]

Hi,

These words are from a poem.

I am become death, the destroyer of the worlds.

Does that mean I am the death?

Possibly, but in English we'd say "I am death" (or Death). No "the".

 

[maral55]

I did search the poem but found nothing of the meaning of that phrase.

 

[Raymott]

Google

 

[Tdol]

Apparently, another translation is 'Death am I', so you're 'I am death' is consistent with it.

 

[maral55]

Google

I read that material, it's about the history of the first atomic explosion not why the the sentence has this structure.

 

[maral55]

what I'm wondering about is why this sentence is passive? why not active?

 

[Raymott]

what I'm wondering about is why this sentence is passive? why not active?

Do you mean, Why is it "I am become" and not "I have become"?
As in Italian, "Sono divenuto la morte", in English "to be" is occasionally used like essere as the auxiliary for intransitive verbs. It's largely poetical or archaic, and I doubt you'd ever need to use it.
You might read, in Shakespeare, for example:
I am come.
We are arrived.

 

[maral55]

So you mean it's equal to I have become?

 

[Raymott]

So you mean it's equal to I have become?

Yes, that's what it means here.
"I am become death" means "I have become death".

 

[maral55]

Yes, that's what it means here.
"I am become death" means "I have become death".

Thanks.

I also found this in a link

"
The quote is indeed from the Bhagavad Gita ("Song of the lord"). Some suggest it's a misquote, which would explain the peculiar grammar; but "am become" is not an error but a (poetic) archaism, as in "I am become a name, for always roaming with a hungry heart" (Tennyson, Ulysses). Which in turn might be a trace of French; "Je suis devenu la mort".
"

Hexmaster's Factoids: I am become death

 

[orangutan]

French influence isn't really necessary, as this use of "to be" as a perfect auxiliary with some intransitive verbs is an old feature of English, inherited from its Germanic past. German and Dutch still do it, in fact in roughly the same way as Italian and French. It is perfectly "normal" archaic English, like "I am come", or "thou art fallen".

 

[mmasny]

Maybe it should be added that both French and Germanic perfect tenses have also the same root in late Proto-Indo-European times or not very long after them. Many Indo-European languages share this feature. In my langauge it's no longer noticeable, because of many changes that took place. Now, we have just one past tense, in which someone with linguistic ear can find the old "be+participle" form.

 

[Raymott]

Maybe it should be added that both French and Germanic perfect tenses have also the same root in late Proto-Indo-European times or not very long after them.

Excellent point. I was wondering how far back it could be traced.

 

[orangutan]

I am not sure, actually, that this particular way of forming the perfect tense can be traced back as far as that (though of course the languages concerned do go back to Indo-European). But I would need to do a bit of homework on that, and don't have any books here.

Here are a few thoughts though:

1) In Romance languages it only goes back to late Latin. This kind of thing doesn't happen in classical Latin, at least not for this class of verbs.
2) I'm not sure how far it goes back in Germanic either. It is even possible that it might have developed under Romance influence. (In which case I should have been a bit more cautious in my previous post...)
3) Ancient Greek (and I think Sanskrit) formed the perfect tense in a completely different way.
4) The Slavonic construction with -l, though similar and also quite old, is, I think, of a different origin.

I may be wrong on any or all of these, of course.

 

[BobK]

French influence isn't really necessary, as this use of "to be" as a perfect auxiliary with some intransitive verbs is an old feature of English, inherited from its Germanic past. German and Dutch still do it, in fact in roughly the same way as Italian and French. It is perfectly "normal" archaic English, like "I am come", or "thou art fallen".

:up: Incidentally, it may be news to some people that 'thou art fallen' doesn't just mean 'you are fallen' (in the simple sense of having fallen off something). In the context of the archaic and/or poetic 'thou art', 'fallen' obviously means fallen in some metaphorical sense (killed in battle, morally degraded... something like that).

b

 

[orangutan]

Right. For the record, I was actually thinking of:

How art thou fallen from heaven, O day star, son of the morning!

Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place I will abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world.

 

[mmasny]

I am not sure, actually, that this particular way of forming the perfect tense can be traced back as far as that (though of course the languages concerned do go back to Indo-European). But I would need to do a bit of homework on that, and don't have any books here.

Here are a few thoughts though:

1) In Romance languages it only goes back to late Latin. This kind of thing doesn't happen in classical Latin, at least not for this class of verbs.
2) I'm not sure how far it goes back in Germanic either. It is even possible that it might have developed under Romance influence. (In which case I should have been a bit more cautious in my previous post...)
3) Ancient Greek (and I think Sanskrit) formed the perfect tense in a completely different way.
4) The Slavonic construction with -l, though similar and also quite old, is, I think, of a different origin.

I may be wrong on any or all of these, of course.

I'm not sure either. I certainly know less about this matter than you do, I have never studies linguistics seriously. What I said is what I read somewhere, I don't even remember where. I'm really curious what's the truth then. Saying "truth" I mean specialists opinions of course ;-)

 

[orangutan]

I'm not an expert in this area either. But if I find out anything relevant, I will report back.