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  1. #41
    mmasny is offline Key Member
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    Default Re: Cross-linguistic Morpheme Analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by chester_100 View Post
    Wow! Apparently the vowels can occur either before or after the morpheme.
    We still have genders in Polish and suffixes have to deal with it too. The genders are usually distinguished by vowels so the suffixes take different vowels in different genders. And that's right, they can appear on both sides of the root.

    Yes, because as it seems plan is originally Latin. It might have been borrowed from English though; just guessing!
    Such unusual structures sound humorous in Farsi.
    Do they? So I think Polish is more like Italian regarding this. We can diminish virtually everything and we do. It does sound humorous sometimes and depends somewhat on who's speaking. For example, there exists a stereotype of an old-fashioned Varsovian who says "pieniążki" instead of "pieniądze" (money) with a sly smile.
    As you know very well, linguistic gender became obsolete in Persian long ago, I think in the Middle Persian.
    I didn't know that. I'm really interested in your language, mostly because of its exoticness and similarity to the languages I understand. But learning the script was always too big an obstacle for me. But it's never too late while I'm alive

  2. #42
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    Default Re: Cross-linguistic Morpheme Analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by mmasny View Post
    Do they? So I think Polish is more like Italian regarding this. We can diminish virtually everything and we do. It does sound humorous sometimes and depends somewhat on who's speaking. For example, there exists a stereotype of an old-fashioned Varsovian who says "pieniążki" instead of "pieniądze" (money) with a sly smile.
    I see. Of course, by humorous, I meant the structures formed by k; since this structure is used for diminutives, and accordingly for small things, there is always a childish element present that makes the words sound funny. The other morpheme that does the same function and is widely distributed in the language is ch. Does it ring the bell?
    -Daftar + ch + e (notebook)
    -Ketab + ch + e (small book)

    I didn't know that. I'm really interested in your language, mostly because of its exoticness and similarity to the languages I understand. But learning the script was always too big an obstacle for me. But it's never too late while I'm alive
    I certainly agree about the script. I admit that sometimes I can't distinguish the morphemes in highly calligraphic works of art. But, on the bright side, the total non-existence of linguistic gender can be encouraging. This method of classifying entities has survived unexceptionally in all the languages I'm slightly familiar with.

    Good luck,
    Ch

  3. #43
    mmasny is offline Key Member
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    Default Re: Cross-linguistic Morpheme Analysis

    And how do you pronounce ch? If it's as in Chester it certainly rings a bell!
    A little crayfish is raczek, crayfish - rak. "Cz" is Polish for "ch"
    Mak is a papaver flower, and maczek would be a little papaver flower.

    But I don't think -cze- is the diminutive morpheme here. It's rather the already mentioned -ek, and the -cz- is just what the root's -k- in rak/mak shifts to. I can be wrong however and maybe it's another similarity that we've just found. I surely associate -cz- with diminutive forms because we do quite often diminish diminutives, and it goes like this:

    papier => papier-ek => papierecz-ek (paper, little paper, very little paper).
    lacha => las-ka => lasecz-ka (big cane, cane, little cane)

  4. #44
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    Default Re: Cross-linguistic Morpheme Analysis

    Yes, exactly. And that's why Czeck is pronounced /ch e k/.
    maczek: I'm getting the sense that cz is an infix here.

    Oh, about -cze, I have to say that the e, which is put at the end of the words in the Persian examples, seems to be a peculiar aspect of the language and should have some phonological function. So as you said we should be focused on ch.

    Your examples reveal a complicated morphological structure. To show papierecz-ek, we have to use other lexical morphemes like adjectives or adverbs in Farsi: extremely small, very small; mostly like the English translations.

    These findings are unbelievably amazing!!! I had no idea!
    Last edited by chester_100; 02-Jun-2010 at 03:39.

  5. #45
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    Default Re: Cross-linguistic Morpheme Analysis

    Les enfants atteints de trouble spécifique du langage ont souvent des problemes très importants en morphologie par rapport aux difficultés qu'ils manifestent dans les autres domaines du langage. Un des facteurs qui pourrait jouer un rôle par rapport à ce problème pourrait être la durée brève de beaucoup de morphèmes grammaticaux. lˆobjet de cette étude est d'explorer ce facteur en examinant lˆemploi des articles dans un groupe d'enfants français qui souffrent de ce trouble spécifique du langage. La langue francaise diffère des autres langues étudiées jusqu'à maintenant, en ce sens que les différences de durée entre syllabes accentuées et syllabes non accentuées sont beaucoup plus courtes comme dans le cas des articles.

  6. #46
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    Default Re: Cross-linguistic Morpheme Analysis

    Even though I can read your French, I wonder that you do not write in your native language since English is much more accessible to the members of this forum than French.

  7. #47
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    Default Re: Cross-linguistic Morpheme Analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by angle222 View Post
    Les enfants atteints de trouble spécifique du langage ont souvent des problemes très importants en morphologie par rapport aux difficultés qu'ils manifestent dans les autres domaines du langage.

    True! That's because the components of language can affect each other. But each of them is acquired or learnt in its own unique way. It has something to do with brain structure (cognitive source).
    Of course, it should be noted that in this thread we're more concerned with the description of the structure of words and their possible similarities across languages.
    Un des facteurs qui pourrait jouer un rôle par rapport à ce problème pourrait être la durée brève de beaucoup de morphèmes grammaticaux.

    Ok. What kind of role does it make? Such morphemes are not great in number, and should not be a serious cause of trouble.

    lˆobjet de cette étude est d'explorer ce facteur en examinant lˆemploi des articles dans un groupe d'enfants français qui souffrent de ce trouble spécifique du langage.

    You mean they suffered from a special language impairment: aphasia? And the researchers wanted to observe the children's reaction to articles.

    La langue francaise diffère des autres langues étudiées jusqu'à maintenant, en ce sens que les différences de durée entre syllabes accentuées et syllabes non accentuées sont beaucoup plus courtes comme dans le cas des articles.

    I think you mean, at present, the difference between the studies lies between the length of stressed and unstressed syllables. If I got that right, I have to say it reminds of Broca's aphasia in which agrammatic speech is usually observed.
    Thank you. I'd like to talk more with you about morphemes and matters related to them.
    By the way, since English is the language used for communication in the website, it would be great if you wrote in English.
    Bonne chance,

  8. #48
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    Default Re: Cross-linguistic Morpheme Analysis

    By "les articles" do you mean "le, la, les, un, une"? Was that a stupid question?

    Those are called "articles" in English -- the definite and the indefinite.

  9. #49
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    Default Re: Cross-linguistic Morpheme Analysis

    Sorry,knownmall, I haven't read the whole thread.

  10. #50
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    Default Re: Cross-linguistic Morpheme Analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Antonson View Post
    By "les articles" do you mean "le, la, les, un, une"? Was that a stupid question?

    Those are called "articles" in English -- the definite and the indefinite.

    Actually, the poor patient suffering from the disorder struggles to produce words. Since it's possible to send our messages without function words, the patient's sentences are reduced to ungrammatically incomplete sentences. So les articles should refer to all of them.

    -Open the window and pour me some water.
    -Open...window...pour ...water.

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