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  1. #11
    orangutan is offline Member
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    Default Re: Is "worth" a preposition?

    Quote Originally Posted by corum View Post
    The _ denotes the places in the clause from where the pp complements have been moved to clause end position. I forgot the name of this movement. Of course I did. My point I am trying to drive at is that right does not only modify the preposition, but the understood PP.
    I think the transformation you are thinking of is Right Node Raising.

    Remember, though, that this is only one possible analysis, not a "given". There are other treatments of this construction in which nothing moves anywhere.

  2. #12
    orangutan is offline Member
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    Default Re: Is "worth" a preposition?

    Quote Originally Posted by corum View Post
    outside my price range = expensive (adj)

    We tend to use the language of spatial dimensions figuratively when we refer to the price of something to describe it in terms of whether it is within our means or outside it.

    Adjectives can be realized by PPs:
    I am not sure I would put it quite like that. Predicated properties which are normally expressed by adjectives can also be expressed by PPs. But adjectives and PPs remain different things. Maybe it looks as if I am splitting hairs here, but I think it is important not to confuse different levels of analysis (predication and part of speech).

    The thing is that this phenomenon (as you yourself hint) is very common, and I don't know if you could find an adjective equivalent to every PP to which it applies. (Actually it even applies to some NPs: I am cold and a long way from home). It seems that predicative phrases can often be co-ordinated without too much regard for their exact part of speech. Therefore in the case of co-ordinated predicates, co-ordination is not a safe test for part of speech. This was really the point I was making. The co-ordination test may suggest that "worth" is an adjective rather than a preposition, but it is not safe to say that it proves it.

  3. #13
    corum is offline Banned
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    Default Re: Is "worth" a preposition?

    Quote Originally Posted by orangutan View Post
    I think the transformation you are thinking of is Right Node Raising.

    Remember, though, that this is only one possible analysis, not a "given".
    RNR, yes! Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by orangutan View Post
    There are other treatments of this construction in which nothing moves anywhere.
    What is one of them?

  4. #14
    Frank Antonson's Avatar
    Frank Antonson is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Is "worth" a preposition?


  5. #15
    Frank Antonson's Avatar
    Frank Antonson is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Is "worth" a preposition?

    compound prepositions sharing an object, the phrase acting adverbially because it answers the question "where"

  6. #16
    corum is offline Banned
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    Default Re: Is "worth" a preposition?

    Quote Originally Posted by orangutan View Post
    I am not sure I would put it quite like that. Predicated properties which are normally expressed by adjectives can also be expressed by PPs. But adjectives and PPs remain different things. Maybe it looks as if I am splitting hairs here, but I think it is important not to confuse different levels of analysis (predication and part of speech).
    I was thinking the same thing. But then it entered my mind why we call certain relative clauses adjectival clauses when the class of adjectives is clearly a formal category, one of the eight word classes. Adjective is a word class and (noun) modifier is a functional label I can attach to it. Ist es richtig?

    Quote Originally Posted by orangutan View Post
    The thing is that this phenomenon (as you yourself hint) is very common, and I don't know if you could find an adjective equivalent to every PP to which it applies. (Actually it even applies to some NPs: I am cold and a long way from home). It seems that predicative phrases can often be co-ordinated without too much regard for their exact part of speech. Therefore in the case of co-ordinated predicates, co-ordination is not a safe test for part of speech.
    Many tests are not foolproof. That is why we need to resort to as many as possible. Even though the coordination test is not completely reliable, the results we get by its application can influence the outcome of our process of argumentation.
    Quote Originally Posted by orangutan View Post
    This was really the point I was making. The co-ordination test may suggest that "worth" is an adjective rather than a preposition, but it is not safe to say that it proves it.
    Agreed. If 'worth' is an adjective, why is this sentence ungrammatical?

    Training dogs is worth.

    I can't think of another(?) adjective that requires a complement for the sentence it sits in to be grammatical. At the moment I am more inclined to treat 'worth' as a preposition.

    It is worth they. -- nominative pronoun
    It is worth them. -- accusative

  7. #17
    corum is offline Banned
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    Default Re: Is "worth" a preposition?

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Antonson View Post


    I like mine better, Frank. On second thoughts, I don't.
    Last edited by corum; 27-Mar-2010 at 21:00.

  8. #18
    corum is offline Banned
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    Default Re: Is "worth" a preposition?

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Antonson View Post
    compound prepositions sharing an object, the phrase acting adverbially because it answers the question "where"
    I am out of breath? Where?

  9. #19
    Frank Antonson's Avatar
    Frank Antonson is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Is "worth" a preposition?

    In American grammar terms, an adjective is a "part of speech" (of which there are eight -- if you include interjections). A modifier is a "part of a sentence" (of which there are about 25).

    Various"parts of sentences" can act as modifiers -- acting adjectivally if they are modifying nouns or pronouns and answer one of the five questions what kind of, how many, how much, whose or which one -- and acting adverbially if they modify verbs, adjectives, or adverbs and answer one of the four questions how, when, where, or why.

    I've said it before that American morphology and syntax are a little like a log cabin -- keeps the wind and rain out, but nothing fancy.

  10. #20
    Frank Antonson's Avatar
    Frank Antonson is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Is "worth" a preposition?

    With all due respect, I don't get your R-K diagram at all!

    I'm glad you like mine better.

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