Video Game for Learning English

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A.Russell

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This might not be the right place to post this, but since it is the most active forum, I hope to get someone other than Red and Tdol to reply :-D (not that I don't enjoy chatting with you two).

As learners of English, would you be interested in a multiplayer video game in which you could chat and collaborate with other users in English and improove you english skills through performing quests in a 3d game world?

More info here: https://www.usingenglish.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11640https://www.usingenglish.com/forum/showthread.php?p=59642#post59642

Your replies will help me decide if such a project is worthwhile or not.
 
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Tomasz Klimkiewicz

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I've just voted (1), and not without reason.

Many games (especially of the RPG genre) provide lots of excellent material. Some can actually be pretty difficult for a beginner, if no translation in one form or another is included in the version published in a given non-English speaking country. Most of the games launched here in Poland are published as the so-called 'movie' version, i.e. with original dialogues and subtitles in Polish, but there have been many with no translation whatsoever, coming with just a simple installation / keyboard control manual. The latter can pose substantial difficulties (the excellent Ultima series being a good example), and I personally know more than one teenager who decided to take English classes more seriously, or even do some studying on their own, because of the game they were exploring. :cool:

Since the time I caught interest in military aviation simulators, my range of related vocabulary has expanded enormously. I wouldn't have gained so much from any formal course, I daresay. ;-)

An interesting topic in its own. Let's wait for more users' input.

Regards

TeeKay
 

Marylin

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I am a bit lost as to how that works. I think the old "Wheel of Fortune" with Pat and Vanna is still going strong in the on line version. It's sooo popular with kids, teenagers as well as us old foggies. Vanna looks great and Pat's handsome as ever. All you've mentioned in your game is here: different levels of difficulty, an excellent chance to build your vocab based on phrases, idioms, cliches, famous people, before and after and a gazillion of other categories. The game's got beatiful graphics, you get to spin the wheel and the only thing that's not real is the big $$$$ that's dangling in front of your nose like a wiener in front of a rottweiler... ;-) Oh well, it's still fun. It's very simple ( I love simple) and wouldn't trade it for anything else.

Good luck with your game!
 
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A.Russell

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Wheel of fortune is a fun family game, and is a good idea for a quick shareware title, now that you mention it.

I don't want to offend you about your age, Marylin, but I think you'll find most young people these days are familiar with role playing games. They have been around since the seventies, and started out as simple text games and pen and paper games like Dungeons and Dragons. Fantasy RPGs are one of the most popular genres of PC gaming. They inherently involve a lot of reading and interacting with other characters, and so were my choice for an attempt at an educational title with mainstream popularity -which is the future according to what I learnt at the Game Developers' Conference in San Francisco. If you like simple, maybe you'll like my pachinko simulation (http://www.pahcinkoagogo.com) though it's aimed at men. Still, it certainly is simple, and your significant other might like it :-D! [end_shameless_plug]

Thanks Tomasz. The US military agrees with you in a big way. They are throwing hundreds of millions into video game simulations for every aspect of training and recruiting. They even design some of their hardware around Playstation controllers so it'll be easier for the kids to adjust to. I know someone at a studio in India who does the same thing, but they don't get such massive budgets. Anyway, it certainly looks like games are making headway into training and educational arenas.

Thank you both, and looking forward to more replies.

EDIT> @Admin -Thanks for making this a sticky!
 
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HaraKiriBlade

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I've also voted [1] - I myself picked up English and Japanese mostly by means of fun - video games, anime, movies... you name it. Many English-translated playstation and computer games, such as Final Fantasy series, helped me learn (about?) English. The only thing I've wished those games had was the English voice that you can turn on or off by choice. (Many of today's games seem to have implemented such measure)

I've read your plans and concepts for your educational game, and they sound pretty good although I wouldn't know for sure before I actually see the game. :cool:

I'd like to put some opinions on it.

I don't know how my attachment will show in this post but take a look at it. If you have to download it to see it, you may want to do so.

This is a screenshot of a Japanese Ero-geh, or 'love affair simulation game for adults'. Some of you might be laughing by now, and yes, it is despised by many sane people, but has its niche in Japan. (and exclusive in Japan!)

The game comes with full voice for almost every dialog, and one very neat thing about the game is that it comes with this 'history' feature, where you can browse through previous dialogs and when clicked on the small voice icon you can listen to it as many times as you need. I'm guessing the same thing could be applied to the video games meant to teach English.

By repeatedly listening to parts of dialogs on which learners want to focus they can not only improve their listening comprehension but their overall pronounciation also. I got little carried away and went sort of off-topic but I thought I'd give my two cents on this as an ESL student.
 

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Marylin

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You are not offending me one bit. All of you guys will get to my stage sooner or later. Just think about it. Doesn't that make you feel good? :shock:
Now...about role playing: yes and no. I am all too familiar with Play Station and Game Cube. My daughter having brothers was raised watching her brothers play those games. And yes, you are right, role playing is a big part of it...from Sim City (non violent) to espionage games - "007" with scenes that would make the real "007" look like a romantic comedy. I have seen those dudes being shot, blown up to pieces, dissected, drunk, stoned, you name it. Blood all over the place.
However, based on what I know, role playing (violent or non v.) is definitely more for guys. I don't know of too many girls that play video games myself (well, there is a Barbie game where girls dress (and undress) Barbies all day long and have a blast doing it.
Personally, I think that while trying to learn a new language, you already have enough on your plate to worry about without adding extra off topic interactivity. That would not be my choice..
But again, you have attended the conference in SF, not me, and I am too old to be taken into account seriously so it shoudn't really matter what I think.

I hope you can invent something that will outlast The Wheel of Fortune or The Price is Right. Good Luck!
 
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A.Russell

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However, based on what I know, role playing (violent or non v.) is definitely more for guys. I don't know of too many girls that play video games myself (well, there is a Barbie game where girls dress (and undress) Barbies all day long and have a blast doing it.

You are absolutely right. Most games appeal to boys (and are made by boys for that matter). Dress-up games and sim type games are popular with girls. Take a look at Second Life (http://www.secondlife.com). There is a game that is popular with women. The demographic for second life conists of an unusually high number of ladies in their 20's and 30's for a role playing game. Then take a look at the type of role playing it is. Players get to fiddle with their appearance, change their clothes, go shopping, decorate houses, go to dance parties and chat with people. Everyone is outrageously dressed and always having conversations while dancing with each other. I met a lady there who called herself "BloodlustErotica", who appeared in an outfit that looked like she had wrapped herself sparsly in electrical tape. After talking in dance mode with streaming 80's music in the background (a typical way to have a conversation in Second Life) she excussed herself because in the real world she had to go and pick up her kids from Sunday school. A lot of ladies love that sort of role playing! Perhaps some of the quests could be to decorate a house, or find a dance party? Or to get some gold coins to go shopping for a new outfit? What do you think? Orc bashing for the boys and dressing up and shopping for the girls?


This is a screenshot of a Japanese Ero-geh, or 'love affair simulation game for adults'. Some of you might be laughing by now, and yes, it is despised by many sane people, but has its niche in Japan. (and exclusive in Japan!)

Japan is quite open with such things. They don't censor a lot. This is something I like about Japan. This issue about what I can show in the way of violence wouldn't be such an issue in a country with Power Rangers on TV. North Americans are less thick skinned than Europeans and Japanese, but it pays to cater for them since that is where the biggest market is. A lot of video games that are exported to America from Japan have to go through a face lift first, to cover up scantily clad lady models and remove all the stuff that might offend American sensibilities.

The game comes with full voice for almost every dialog, and one very neat thing about the game is that it comes with this 'history' feature, where you can browse through previous dialogs and when clicked on the small voice icon you can listen to it as many times as you need.

I like this idea very much. Are the voices in this game recorded or synthetic? My game will use both, however it will make heavy use of text to speech, as a lot of the dialogues will be arbatrary.


By repeatedly listening to parts of dialogs on which learners want to focus they can not only improve their listening comprehension but their overall pronounciation also.

I will also provide listen and repeat practice for pronunciation.



I really want more votes as to who thinks this game is useful. Let's try to get at least 20!
 
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HaraKiriBlade

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Just answering your question, (Mister?) Russell.

Are the voices in this game recorded or synthetic?

All the voices in the game are recorded, acted by different people for each character.

My game will use both, however it will make heavy use of text to speech, as a lot of the dialogues will be arbatrary.

I know you have to resort to using text to speech plugin. The only problem with that is you can't convey any emotion of the characters in the game. Do I think it matters while the prime purpose of the game is to learn English? Absolutely!

When the voices are recorded, you have many ways to suggest the emotional state the character's supposed to be in, by voice tones, speech speed, placement of accents, pauses and etc.. students will learn to choose words befitting to certain situations. They will also learn to effectively convey how they feel, not just what they mean.

But the nature of the video game you're planning makes it difficult to implement such measures, because, as you said, a lot of the dialogues will be arbitrary.
 
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A.Russell

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I know you have to resort to using text to speech plugin. The only problem with that is you can't convey any emotion of the characters in the game.

Not yet, anyway. There is currently text to speech being developed that does convey emotion.

However, I see your point. Unfortunately, in order to have good speech AI in the bots, it is not possible to use recorded speech. If the AI is capable of something like 16,000 responses, sometimes inserting data from earlier in the conversation, there is no way I can get voice actors to read every possible sentence.

The game will have recorded speech in it, but in order to give learners the most exposure to the language, TTS is neccessary.

All speech will also be written in a chat box.
 

A.Russell

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Good to see some more votes coming in. I'd like to hear reasons from the people who voted against as well.

I am still working on the initial design document, but I hope to be able to show you all a more complete plan and some preliminary artwork soon.

I would very much like to hear more about features you would like in this application -both gameplay and educational.
 

Marylin

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A.Russell said:
Good to see some more votes coming in. I'd like to hear reasons from the people who voted against as well.

I am still working on the initial design document, but I hope to be able to show you all a more complete plan and some preliminary artwork soon.

I would very much like to hear more about features you would like in this application -both gameplay and educational.


I don't think the suggestions are exactly pouring in for you. Mind you a lot of kids here do not have access to any video games and probably never will. Some might not even have a clue what you are talking about. As I said before, without trying to sound discouraging, I really don't feel the market is there for this stuff but let's hope I am wrong.
 

Red5

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Marylin, if I may be so bold,

First and foremost, let me state for the record that I am not a teacher of English, never have been and never will be. I am not replying through experience, simply personal impressions.

I agree with your statement when it applies to the World market - Mr. Russell will never rule the world with this piece of software. Certainly, there will be people who will not be able to relate to it, and others who simply can't access it due to the limitations of their available technology.

I do, however, believe that there is a wide enough market for people to be interested in a product like this and for Mr. Russell to do well from it.

It would entirely depend on which market segment the software was being aimed/marketed at. There are plenty of people who have decent computer & internet access, and who need or desire education in the English language. There are millions and millions of people from every walk of life who want assistance with learning English. Access to the needed technology is increasing massively on a daily basis.

I honestly do think that a product such as this could do well, and I wish Mr. Russell good luck in being able to pull this off.

Kind regards,

Red5
 

Marylin

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Red5 said:
Marylin, if I may be so bold,

First and foremost, let me state for the record that I am not a teacher of English, never have been and never will be. I am not replying through experience, simply personal impressions.

I agree with your statement when it applies to the World market - Mr. Russell will never rule the world with this piece of software. Certainly, there will be people who will not be able to relate to it, and others who simply can't access it due to the limitations of their available technology.

I do, however, believe that there is a wide enough market for people to be interested in a product like this and for Mr. Russell to do well from it.

It would entirely depend on which market segment the software was being aimed/marketed at. There are plenty of people who have decent computer & internet access, and who need or desire education in the English language. There are millions and millions of people from every walk of life who want assistance with learning English. Access to the needed technology is increasing massively on a daily basis.

I honestly do think that a product such as this could do well, and I wish Mr. Russell good luck in being able to pull this off.

Kind regards,

Red5

Well, my personal impression is a little different and I understood we were incouraged to express it.
Nevertheless, as I mentioned before, I hope I am wrong on that one. Getting something like that on the market and being successful at the same time will prove me wrong once and for all.
In any case, Mr Russell, shoot for the stars, aim high and you can become a success story one day! Hell with Marylin, what does she know!
I mean it.
 

Tdol

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In terms of market, in the UK all schools and colleges are linked to the internet, most with dedicated resource centres. This pattern will be found around mosty of the better-off countries, so there could well be a market for a game such as this. At present, there are very few games available and most are of a very low stabdard in terms of playability, which makes me think that a game that is designed professionally in gaming terms could break the mold. If you look at the games on the BBC Skillwise site (http://www.bbc.co.uk/skillswise/games/), you'll see what I mean. Most games haven't been designed by people who play games, but by teachers trying to jazz things up a bit.
 

A.Russell

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Some interesting points here about marketability. I’ll try to cover them as best I can.



Ø I don't think the suggestions are exactly pouring in for you.



True. Most ESL notice boards are not exactly high traffic sites, and this is one of the busiest that I know. A large number of the posts here are from learners trying to find answers to their grammar questions and kind teachers taking some time out to answer them. Probably a lot of the learners here have trouble following our conversations or are shy to contribute. However the response to the survey question has been very encouraging. I expect I will get a lot more feedback once I have the first playable release for teachers and students to try. I’ll keep you all posted with my progress.



Ø Mind you a lot of kids here do not have access to any video games and probably never will.



??? Where don’t kids have access to video games these days? In fact, it is now a larger industry than the movie business.



Certainly, the technology is not the greatest in every part of the world. We are spoilt here in Japan with our high speed connections (I have 36M –enough to run a school LAN, and now for the same price I could get over 100M if I wanted it) and new technology. Schools often don’t have the newest or greatest hardware either. I will take that into consideration when designing the game to try to make it able to run on weaker/older systems.





Ø Mr. Russell will never rule the world with this piece of software…I do, however, believe that there is a wide enough market for people to be interested in a product like this



Please call me Alex J. I am not gunning for the next big AAA title FPS, RPG or RTS game and going up against EA, Blizzard or Microsoft Games with their massive multi-million dollar budgets. These games have become so high budget and high risk now that they are often becoming increasingly formulaic. The game play rarely deviates much from the titles that have gone before, and all that is added is more stunning visual effects and the big name franchise branded on them.



It is certainly a risk that I am taking. It is quite expensive to even prototype a video game. Although predictably training and educational games will become more prominent, and possibly even boom, over the next five years, right now they mostly aren’t a dramatic success. As stated, this could change if the games had a more mainstream and fun element to them. It also needs to be shown that video games can provide real solutions to government and private organizations; how in certain situations they can provide improved training simulations, cut costs, motivate learners and arouse awareness of certain issues. This is fairly uncharted territory complete with all the potential risks and rewards. I hope this will turn out to be a nice little niche that hasn’t yet been exploited by the big companies.



Indications so far, from talking to people in the industry and on forums like this, are that this type of software is needed and useful to a lot of learners and teachers of English. I am interested to hear as many opinions for and against as I can gather and more specific comments regarding the particular application that I am proposing. From the overwhelmingly positive response so far, I am confident to go ahead with the project and build a prototype.



Ø I really don't feel the market is there for this stuff



So cynical for one so young ;). I like to hear arguments against the project as well. Please keep them coming.

 
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Red5

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Marylin said:
Well, my personal impression is a little different and I understood we were incouraged to express it.
You are most welcome to. I was simply stating my own. ;-)
 

Tdol

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When the BBC produced the Muzzy in Gondoland video, they produced a classi, that I still remember fondly today. It was so far ahead of anything else being made at the time- they made an educational cartoon that was fun, for students and teachers. I used it in the eighties and I could still hum many of the songs. While there is always a risk involved, and I have no idea about the costs involved, I do think that a quality game could do the same.

About the number of responses, this forum does tend to concentrate on question/answer, but I'm sure when it hits alpha, there will be more responses. :)
 

Marylin

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Where don’t kids have access to video games these days?
Where? OK, here it is:


Algeria, Angola, Bolivia, Chad, Chile, Nepal, Colombia, Costa Rica, Cuba, Dominican Republic,Ecuador, El Salvador,Ethiopia, Honduras India, Iraq, Afghanistan, Korea (North), Laos, Namibia,, Nicaragua, Nigeria, Paraguay, Peru, Rwanda, Tibet, Nepal, Ceylon, Azerbaijan and many others. I think they call them third world countries.


So cynical for one so young ;).


"Old age is not a disease, Mr Russell, and it's not a place for sissies, either". I can't remember you asking only for young teachers to come forward...hmmm
 

A.Russell

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You are definatly wrong on Chile, Algeria,Laos and India, because I have friends from/in those countries. Often in third world countries kids go to internet cafes to play on PCs. I would also consider those countries as opporttunities, as things can only get better for most of them.

Just teasing about your age.
 

Marylin

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A.Russell said:
You are definatly wrong on Chile, Algeria,Laos and India, because I have friends from/in those countries. Often in third world countries kids go to internet cafes to play on PCs. I would also consider those countries as opporttunities, as things can only get better for most of them.

Just teasing about your age.


Often in third world countries kids go to internet cafes to play on PCs.

I see. From what I have seen, those places are packed with travellers and packpackers. The internet connection is soooo slow, you might as well fall asleep while trying to e-mail someone, let alone play a game. Not too many native kids whose families have enough hard time trying to make ends meet wondering if there is enough food to put on the table.


Just teasing about your age.

Right.
 
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