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  1. #21
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    Default Re: before and in front of

    Jiang, about your original question, before and in front of, try "looking" at it this way.

    in front of:
    X1 -> X2 (X2 is in front of X1 with reference to X1)

    before:
    X1 -> X2 -> Y (X2 is before X1 with reference to Y)

    Hope that helps.

  2. #22
    jiang is offline Key Member
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    Default Re: before and in front of


    Dear Casiopea,
    I have heard from you for a long time. Glad to hear from you again.

    I am sorry your formula is too difficult for me to understand. Now I am trying to explain what I understand according to you formula:
    1. I should say "I am standing in front of something or somebody" when I am the first person, say in a line. That means nobody is standing front of him.
    2. If there are people in front of me, say in a line, and there are people behind me then I should say " I am standing before somebody or something".

    Is that right?

    Looking forward to hearing from you.

    Thank you in advance.

    Jiang




    Quote Originally Posted by Casiopea
    Jiang, about your original question, before and in front of, try "looking" at it this way.

    in front of:
    X1 -> X2 (X2 is in front of X1 with reference to X1)

    before:
    X1 -> X2 -> Y (X2 is before X1 with reference to Y)

    Hope that helps.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: before and in front of


    Dear Casiopea,
    I have heard from you for a long time. Glad to hear from you again.

    I've heard about Casio for a long time and I finally met her in my dream last night. She was a logical wise woman and still is. I don't get your logic either, Cassie.

    I haven't heard from you for a while, either!

  4. #24
    Steven D's Avatar
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    Default Re: before and in front of

    If someone is "before" you, then someone is "in front of you".

    example: They spoke before a live audience. = The audience was in front of them, and they were facing the audience.

    example: The radio show was recorded before a live audience. = The radio show was recorded in front of a live audience.

    If a person is in front of you, then you are "after" that person. And that person is in front of you. That same person is before you.

    example: A guy with a blue hat was standing in line at the supermarket. A woman with a red hat was standing behind him. The cashier said to the woman with the red hat, "Can I help you?" The woman with the red hat said, "No, this gentelman with the blue hat is before me." The gentleman with the blue hat told the woman with the red hat that she could go in front of him even though he was before her in line.

    before = in front of

    after = behind

    They couldn't believe what they saw right before their very eyes. It was a gigantic bird.

    The gigantic bird was "right in front of them", which means the gigantic bird was "right before their very eyes".

    The gigantic bird stood before them flapping its wings up and down. The gigantic bird was in front of them flapping its wings up and down. There was a lot of wind.

    Does that help you understand it?


  5. #25
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    Default Re: before and in front of

    Danke=German for thanks

  6. #26
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    Default Re: before and in front of

    I believe Casiopea was trying to be graphical in his / her (sorry!) explanation. (I don't know if I'm using the words in proper way...)

    Maybe if I just replace Xs and Ys with emoticons... trying to be even more graphical the formula may become easier to understand.

    in front of:
    -> ( is in front of with reference to )

    before:
    -> -> ( is before with reference to )

    Does it look any better?
    And sorry Casiopea, for stealing your explanation this way. If it's copyrighted let me know, I'll delete this post.
    Last edited by HaraKiriBlade; 19-May-2005 at 05:33.

  7. #27
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    Default Re: before and in front of

    It's a good steal. <smile> You've got it right. Here's another example. Consider the line up below:

    Pat (last), Max (middle), Sam (first) |COUNTER|

    Pat, Max, and Sam are standing in line at the Post Office in front of the counter. Here 'in front of' refers to space: Pat is behind Max; Max is in front of Pat and behind Sam. Sam is in front of Max. That's the order of the line up. Now let's look at the line up from the view of who's first to be served: Sam is before Max. Max is before Pat. No one is before Pat. Pat is last to be served.

    Speakers tend to use 'before' and 'in front of' synonymously, but they really aren't true synonyms when referring to a line up. "in front of" refers to location (i.e., Where is Sam (located in space)? In front of Max), whereas "before" refers to a sequence (i.e., Who is next in line (to be served)? Sam is next in line. Sam is before Max.

    Sam might say, "Max, you can go before me (i.e., get served before me) or "Max, you can go in front of me" (i.e., take my place in line). And since the outcome of both is that Max will be served first and Sam second, it makes the usage appear synonymous.

  8. #28
    Steven D's Avatar
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    Default Re: before and in front of

    Quote Originally Posted by Casiopea
    It's a good steal. <smile> You've got it right. Here's another example. Consider the line up below:

    Pat (last), Max (middle), Sam (first) |COUNTER|

    Pat, Max, and Sam are standing in line at the Post Office in front of the counter. Here 'in front of' refers to space: Pat is behind Max; Max is in front of Pat and behind Sam. Sam is in front of Max. That's the order of the line up. Now let's look at the line up from the view of who's first to be served: Sam is before Max. Max is before Pat. No one is before Pat. Pat is last to be served.

    Speakers tend to use 'before' and 'in front of' synonymously, but they really aren't true synonyms when referring to a line up. "in front of" refers to location (i.e., Where is Sam (located in space)? In front of Max), whereas "before" refers to a sequence (i.e., Who is next in line (to be served)? Sam is next in line. Sam is before Max.

    Sam might say, "Max, you can go before me (i.e., get served before me) or "Max, you can go in front of me" (i.e., take my place in line). And since the outcome of both is that Max will be served first and Sam second, it makes the usage appear synonymous.

    So does this mean, as you see it, that an audience that is in front of a group of performers or a speaker is not also before them?

    in front of an audience - before an audience

    Do the following two have the same meaning to you?

    1. in front of their very eyes 2. right before their very eyes


    Sam might say, "Max, you can go before me (i.e., get served before me) or "Max, you can go in front of me" (i.e., take my place in line). And since the outcome of both is that Max will be served first and Sam second, it makes the usage appear synonymous.
    I understand what you mean about sequence and space. However, would you say it's wrong to use those words in such a manner as has been described?

    Also, would you say that a sequence or a line can exist in space?


    Speakers tend to use 'before' and 'in front of' synonymously, but they really aren't true synonyms when referring to a line up. "in front of" refers to location (i.e., Where is Sam (located in space)? In front of Max), whereas "before" refers to a sequence (i.e., Who is next in line (to be served)? Sam is next in line. Sam is before Max.

    Sam might say, "Max, you can go before me (i.e., get served before me) or "Max, you can go in front of me" (i.e., take my place in line). And since the outcome of both is that Max will be served first and Sam second, it makes the usage appear synonymous.
    Therefore, would you say it's wrong to say "one person is in front of another person" when there are a number of people waiting in line?
    Last edited by Steven D; 19-May-2005 at 12:50. Reason: addition

  9. #29
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    Default Re: before and in front of

    They couldn't believe what they saw right before their very eyes. It was a gigantic bird.

    The gigantic bird was "right in front of them", which means the gigantic bird was "right before their very eyes".

    The gigantic bird stood before them flapping its wings up and down. The gigantic bird was in front of them flapping its wings up and down. There was a lot of wind.
    Here we are using "in front of them" and "before them" to describe where the gigantic bird is. If a bus comes and the gigantic bird turns around to get on the bus and the people follow the gigantic bird onto the bus, can we still use "in front of" and "before them" to describe where each is situated?

  10. #30
    Steven D's Avatar
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    Default Re: before and in front of

    Quote Originally Posted by Casiopea
    Jiang, about your original question, before and in front of, try "looking" at it this way.

    in front of:
    X1 -> X2 (X2 is in front of X1 with reference to X1)

    before:
    X1 -> X2 -> Y (X2 is before X1 with reference to Y)

    Hope that helps.

    Just out of curiosity, would you say that both examples are representations of lines?

    If we look at it that way, can we say it that way? I would say so. - just wondering what your take on it might be.

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