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  1. #1
    catalata22 is offline Newbie
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    Diagramming Einstein Redux

    Hello All,

    I am wondering if someone could help me with a Reed-Kellogg diagram for the following Einstein quote:

    "Teaching should be such that what is offered is perceived as a valuable gift and not as a hard duty.

    Thanks much in advance


    Catalata

  2. #2
    corum is offline Banned
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    Re: Diagramming Einstein Redux



    Teaching should be such that what is offered is perceived as a valuable gift and not as a hard duty

    as = expletive

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    Frank Antonson's Avatar
    Frank Antonson is offline Senior Member
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    Re: Diagramming Einstein Redux

    How about this, Corum? What do you think?


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    corum is offline Banned
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    Re: Diagramming Einstein Redux

    Hello Frank! The first problem is 'such' is an adjective and 'that' introduces an appositive clause. You are thinking differently. Regarding the other main difference in our respective interpretations, IMO 'is perceived' fulfills a linking function. Ask Gene! What he says I wonder.

    EDIT: FRank, I highly doubt that 'so' is understood as part of the subordinator.
    Last edited by corum; 22-May-2010 at 16:54.

  5. #5
    Frank Antonson's Avatar
    Frank Antonson is offline Senior Member
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    Re: Diagramming Einstein Redux

    Quote Originally Posted by corum View Post
    Hello Frank! The first problem is 'such' is an adjective and 'that' introduces an appositive clause. You are thinking differently. Regarding the other main difference in our respective interpretations, IMO 'is perceived' fulfills a linking function. Ask Gene! What he says I wonder.

    EDIT: FRank, I highly doubt that 'so' is understood as part of the subordinator.
    I know what you are saying on almost every account. However, you could say "Something is perceived differently" more comfortably that "Something is perceived different". "Such" can be thought of as an adjective, as in "Such fun"; but also as a pronoun, as in "Such is fun". For there to be an appositive there, you would have to be able to take it out since it would be duplicating something. What is clause duplicating?

    By the way, isn't this fun!!??

  6. #6
    Frank Antonson's Avatar
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    Re: Diagramming Einstein Redux

    Speaking of Gene. I got my school to buy me a copy of his new book. "Drawing Sentences". It's fun and very complete. I don't think there is anything new in it, but it's great to see a new book on the subject of Reed-Kellogg.

    Back to that Einstein sentence, I am not at all sure that my interpretation is correct, but I still like it better than yours.

    Surely, you will admit that "as" is a preposition!

  7. #7
    corum is offline Banned
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    Re: Diagramming Einstein Redux

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Antonson View Post

    By the way, isn't this fun!!??
    Very!

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Antonson View Post
    For there to be an appositive there, you would have to be able to take it out since it would be duplicating something.
    In the case of restrictive apposition, this does not hold true. Or does it?

    Such is fun
    One thing that I have learnt from my studies in TG is that sentences have a D-structure and a corresponding S-structure. D stands for deep and S for surface.
    The deep structure of the above sentence is this:
    Fun be such. [NP IP Vp[V AP]]

    There are two movement rules operate while we get to this: "Such is this".

    1. V lands in IP
    2. AP NP swap

    [In the house] is [Frank].
    [White] is his house and [green] is his garden.

    Pre-verbal position is not the VIP room for NP's. Other types of phrases can occupy it too. So your sentence does not substantiate your claim for 'such' being a noun (phrase).

    Let us apply one distributional test for 'such' in 'Such is fun.'

    Truly such is fun.
    Truly this is fun.

    Hmm...

  8. #8
    Frank Antonson's Avatar
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    Re: Diagramming Einstein Redux

    "Such is the condition of man -- that he is mortal. "

    Here we have "such" as a pronoun and "that he is mortal" as an appositive.

    I have never heard of a restrictive appositive. If it is restrictive, it would be modifying.

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    corum is offline Banned
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    Re: Diagramming Einstein Redux

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Antonson View Post

    Surely, you will admit that "as" is a preposition!
    I will. Expletive and preposition are not mutually exclusive terms.

  10. #10
    Frank Antonson's Avatar
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    Re: Diagramming Einstein Redux

    Your use of TG (transformational grammar, for others like me) is tantalizing. TG needs an apologist -- one who can demonstrate its usefulness -- before I am willing to dive into it. This sentence that we are working on comes very close to convincing me that TG can add something to RK (Reed Kellogg, for those not like me.)

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