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  1. #21
    Frank Antonson's Avatar
    Frank Antonson is offline Senior Member
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    Re: Diagramming Einstein Redux

    I checked that Youtube video out -- as much as I could take of it.

    I have watched some of his other work. He lost me as a fan as soon as I heard him use the word "verb" as a part of a sentence instead of "simple predicate" (a verb is a part of speech). If you REALLY want, I will go back and watch the rest of it.

    Sorry that I stopped so soon on that video. Are you trying to suggest that you cannot have appositive that are other parts of sentences besides subjects?

    I don't understand, comprehend, grasp it, wrap my mind around it.

  2. #22
    corum is offline Banned
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    Re: Diagramming Einstein Redux

    My Sister Sandra is singing.
    My sister is singing.
    Sandra is singing. :tick.

    All sentences are well-formed. But do they mean the same to you? Not necessarily. If I have one sister, then okay (the two apposed NP's cant have different referents), not otherwise.

    Teaching should be such that what is offered is perceived as a valuable gift and not as a hard duty

    Teaching should be such ... so that what is offered is perceived as a valuable gift and not as a hard duty

  3. #23
    Frank Antonson's Avatar
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    Re: Diagramming Einstein Redux

    In a way, lucky for me that I have to go.

    It will give me time to think about this.

    I'll come back to the forum in about three hours.

  4. #24
    corum is offline Banned
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    Re: Diagramming Einstein Redux

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Antonson View Post
    Are you trying to suggest that you cannot have appositive that are other parts of sentences besides subjects?
    .
    No. I was trying to say that the traditional definition of apposition only employs phrases with nominal categorial status.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Antonson View Post
    He lost me as a fan as soon as I heard him use the word "verb" as a part of a sentence instead of "simple predicate" (a verb is a part of speech)
    Terminology that you are not used to. That is all. He still can be okay. IN TG this is how

    My Sister Sandra is singing.

    is parsed:

    is = IP
    singing = VP
    singing = V

    Do you like it? Inflectional phrase?! Pfew! That was my initial response. I have, however, become comfortable with it by now.

  5. #25
    corum is offline Banned
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    Re: Diagramming Einstein Redux

    Do the (reduced) relative clause test work with 'such' here? Relative clauses modify nouns. Let us see what happens:

    Teaching should be [such which is perceived so].

    EDIT: Comes to mind relativizers can't have a pronoun as their antecedent. So my test gets me nowhere. So sad!
    Last edited by corum; 22-May-2010 at 19:47.

  6. #26
    Frank Antonson's Avatar
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    Re: Diagramming Einstein Redux

    "No. I was trying to say that the traditional definition of apposition only employs phrases with nominal categorial status."

    Well, I am back. I have been to an encounter which was special (and universal), but which does not pertain to our discussion.

    Back to the "traditional definition of apposition" ... Apposition is not only nominal. I don't care who wants to disagree with this. One can have an appositive simple subject, simple predicate, predicate adjective, etc.

    And I am still waiting to see if there is an appositive in that Einstein sentence -- or, at least to see it proven.

  7. #27
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    Re: Diagramming Einstein Redux

    Quote Originally Posted by catalata22 View Post
    Hello All,

    I am wondering if someone could help me with a Reed-Kellogg diagram for the following Einstein quote:

    "Teaching should be such that what is offered is perceived as a valuable gift and not as a hard duty.

    Thanks much in advance


    Catalata
    Maybe the next thing to do is to expand that sentence into as many words as are required to have none of it elliptical.

    "Teaching should be the kind of activity in which what is offered is considered to be a valuable gift instead of being considered a hard duty."

  8. #28
    corum is offline Banned
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    Re: Diagramming Einstein Redux

    What about this?

    Such should be teaching that...
    What should teaching be like?
    It should be such that what is offered...

    1. Nouns don't answer the question "What it is like?" Adjectives do.
    2. The that-clause completes the meaning of 'such' (adjective complement).
    3. Do you think that 'such' carries meaning? Is it not another expletive, a grammatical filler?
    4. In "Teaching should be such that what is offered is perceived as a valuable gift and not as a hard duty," the parts in bold are subject (= what is offered) complements.

  9. #29
    Frank Antonson's Avatar
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    Re: Diagramming Einstein Redux

    Quote Originally Posted by corum View Post
    What about this?

    Such should be teaching that...
    What should teaching be like?
    It should be such that what is offered...

    1. Nouns don't answer the question "What it is like?" Adjectives do.
    2. The that-clause completes the meaning of 'such' (adjective complement).
    3. Do you think that 'such' carries meaning? Is it not another expletive, a grammatical filler?
    4. In "Teaching should be such that what is offered is perceived as a valuable gift and not as a hard duty," the parts in bold are subject (= what is offered) complements.

    All, well argued. I am almost convinced about some of it. I still don't have an analysis that satisfies me.
    1. Nouns CAN answer the question "What?" Such should be teaching -- a joy.
    2. This is the first time that I have heard of an "adjective complement". Interesting idea. I would like to see more examples.
    3. Yes, I think that "such" carries meaning. It sort of means "that kind of a thing" But it seems to be closely related to "so". Its etymology might help.
    4. As far as "gift" and "duty" being subject complements instead of objects of prepositions is concerned. I am okay with your interpretation. "As a fellow diagrammer, I can perceive it, as you do, as an answer"

    Do you think that it is actually the main verb that is understood. "Teaching should be (performed) (in) such (a way) that... "Such...that" could then be considered a correlative conjunction like "so...that" (And the fact that those two correlative conjunctions don't quite mean the same thing is part of why I think that "such" carries some meaning.

    I still don't see any appositive in this (I have begun to think rather awkwardly constructed) sentence.

  10. #30
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    Re: Diagramming Einstein Redux

    Do you think that Einstein might have said that in his native language, German, and then someone translated it?

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