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  1. #1
    maiabulela is offline Senior Member
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    Default pre-civil war butter dish

    The chef uses some ingredients one of which is "pre-civil war butter dish". What is the meaning of that?

    Thanks.

  2. #2
    BobK's Avatar
    BobK is offline Harmless drudge
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    Default Re: pre-civil war butter dish

    It depends on context. If it's in England, the butter dish was made before the English Civil War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ; it's probably made of silver; I expect pre-civil war butter dishes are very rare, because supporters of the royalist cause contributed all their family silver to the war effort. But I'm not an expert in silverware!

    Alternatively, the butter dish was made before the American Civil War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia . I have a feeling that anything made before that war is called 'ante bellum' - which is Latin for 'pre-war'! So I'd guess my first guess was right.

    b

  3. #3
    maiabulela is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: pre-civil war butter dish

    Quote Originally Posted by Gillnetter View Post
    I get the sense that the dish here is not a physical plate or bowel or any other container. It seems to me that the dish is food with a lot of butter in it (ingredients seems to be key here). While ante bellum is the correct word for anything made before the war, it is not that common - most people in the US would call it pre-civil war.

    Yes, he was numerating the ingredients that he'll use. So we can say then that he means "let'd grab some butter in pre-civil dish"? The dish yes was weird and gold with butter in it.

    Thanks

  4. #4
    BobK's Avatar
    BobK is offline Harmless drudge
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    Default Re: pre-civil war butter dish

    Quote Originally Posted by Gillnetter View Post
    I get the sense that the dish here is not a physical plate or bowel or any other container. It seems to me that the dish is food with a lot of butter in it (ingredients seems to be key here). While ante bellum is the correct word for anything made before the war, it is not that common - most people in the US would call it pre-civil war.
    I didn't know that about 'ante bellum'. Thanks.

    I noticed that Maia had mentioned 'ingredients', which suggests a more edible meaning for 'dish', but just assumed that there was more in the context that she hadn't mentioned. Alternatively, one might ask 'Was there something about early nineteenth-century cows in the US, that would make 'pre-war butter' a meaningful phrase? Perhaps it was characterized by a specially high fat content...?

    Maia:
    • The word you wanted was 'enumerate'. The word numerado means 'bearing a number' - footballers' shirts are 'numbered'. I'm not sure - but don't think - 'numerate' is a verb in English. It is, incidentally an adjective (like 'literate', but with numbers). Like 'literate', 'numerate' has a schwa in the last syllable.
    • Was the source set in late-'40s Europe? Because of food rationing (that carried on for several years after 1945) cheap or more plentiful substitutes were typically used for many foodstuffs*. 'Pre-war butter', in this context, might mean 'real butter, not margarine'. The idea of a type of food being 'a butter dish' (on the analogy of 'a fish dish' or 'a rice dish') isn't one I've met though.


    *Personal recollection - well, I wasn't born at the time, but the story was a favourite at family gatherings. My half brother (many years my senior) went to boarding school, where margarine was always used as a substitute for butter. At a dinner party while he was on holiday (my father was in the film business, so currying favour with potential backers was important) he was invited as a special treat and warned to be on his best behaviour. When the food was served, my brother pointed at the Real Butter (specially bought for the occasion) and said 'Pass the marge.'

    b

  5. #5
    Ouisch's Avatar
    Ouisch is offline Moderator
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    Default Re: pre-civil war butter dish

    Quote Originally Posted by Gillnetter View Post
    I get the sense that the dish here is not a physical plate or bowel or any other container. It seems to me that the dish is food with a lot of butter in it (ingredients seems to be key here). While ante bellum is the correct word for anything made before the war, it is not that common - most people in the US would call it pre-civil war.
    I agree that it sounds as if the narrator was referring to a recipe ("dish") that required a lot of butter. If this was a U.S. TV show or recipe, it could have been a traditional Southern dish of some sort, and the "pre-Civil War butter" could have referred to the severe shortage of butter during the American Civil War. But that's just some serious conjecture on my part.

    PS My in-laws are all Georgia natives that can trace their Southern lineage back I don't know how many hundreds of years, and they usually refer to pre-Civil War architecture and artifacts as "antebellum." Of course, they also steadfastly refer to the Civil War as "The War of Northern Aggression."

  6. #6
    maiabulela is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: pre-civil war butter dish

    Quote Originally Posted by BobK View Post
    I didn't know that about 'ante bellum'. Thanks.

    I noticed that Maia had mentioned 'ingredients', which suggests a more edible meaning for 'dish', but just assumed that there was more in the context that she hadn't mentioned. Alternatively, one might ask 'Was there something about early nineteenth-century cows in the US, that would make 'pre-war butter' a meaningful phrase? Perhaps it was characterized by a specially high fat content...?


    Maia:
    • The word you wanted was 'enumerate'. The word numerado means 'bearing a number' - footballers' shirts are 'numbered'. I'm not sure - but don't think - 'numerate' is a verb in English. It is, incidentally an adjective (like 'literate', but with numbers). Like 'literate', 'numerate' has a schwa in the last syllable.
    • Was the source set in late-'40s Europe? Because of food rationing (that carried on for several years after 1945) cheap or more plentiful substitutes were typically used for many foodstuffs*. 'Pre-war butter', in this context, might mean 'real butter, not margarine'. The idea of a type of food being 'a butter dish' (on the analogy of 'a fish dish' or 'a rice dish') isn't one I've met though.

    *Personal recollection - well, I wasn't born at the time, but the story was a favourite at family gatherings. My half brother (many years my senior) went to boarding school, where margarine was always used as a substitute for butter. At a dinner party while he was on holiday (my father was in the film business, so currying favour with potential backers was important) he was invited as a special treat and warned to be on his best behaviour. When the food was served, my brother pointed at the Real Butter (specially bought for the occasion) and said 'Pass the marge.'

    b

    First. Thanks a lot for your effort. I'm sorry if the context is not clear. It's just bec, when I don't understand something, I don't really know which part of the context I should provide, I'm sorry for that.

    Here is the whole words of the host (Guy):

    "UM, LET'S SEE, PARMESAN CHEESE,

    A LITTLE HALF-AND-HALF

    AND THE PRE-CIVIL WAR
    BUTTER DISH. (later, it turned out to be just butter)

    I DON'T KNOW.
    I DON'T KNOW WHERE IT CAME FROM.

    JUST THINGS LIKE THIS,
    I BRING 'EM HOME.

    I'M ON "DINERS,
    DRIVE-INS AND DIVES,"


    I END UP WITH THESE
    LITTLE TCHOTCHKES.

    OKAY, LET'S GET
    INTO MAKING THIS.


    Can't thank you enough.

  7. #7
    BobK's Avatar
    BobK is offline Harmless drudge
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    Default Re: pre-civil war butter dish

    I was talking rubbish in my last post. I was forgetting the '-Civil'. What I said was interesting (perhaps) but irrelevant - through no fault of yours.

    b

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