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  1. #1
    gerry Guest

    Default Difficult or impossible sentences or constructions?

    I would like to ask the members here and moderators and others in the governance here with advanced English skills, to tell me what they think of the intelligibility of the two following excerpts. I have to know what you people think so that I can re-assure myself that my English is not very deficient or my mental acuity is not so dull; for I have a terribly hard time trying to make sense of them -- otherwise I will just have to live with my poor mastery of English and my modest mental grasp .

    (Text 1, focus on the third sentence.) It is common to assume that we are dealing with a highly intelligent book when we cease to understand it. Profound ideas cannot, after all, be explained in the language of children. Yet the association between difficulty and profundity might less generously be described as a manifestation in the literary sphere of a perversity familiar from emotional life, where people who are mysterious and elusive can inspire a respect in modest minds that reliable and clear ones do not.

    (Text 2) Such contradictory articulations of reality and desire - seen in racist stereotypes, statements, jokes, myths - are not caught in the doubtful circle of the return of the repressed. They are the effects of a disavowal that denies the differences of the other but produces in its stead forms of authority and multiple belief that alienate the assumptions of ‘civil’ discourse. If, for a while, the ruse of desire is calculable for the uses Of discipline soon the repetition of guilt, justification, pseudo-scientific theories, superstition, spurious authorities, and classifications can be seen as the desperate effort to ‘normalize’ formally the disturbance of a discourse of splitting that violates the rational, enlightened claims of its enunciatory modality. The ambivalence of colonial authority repeatedly turns from mimicry - a difference that is almost nothing but not quite - to menace - a difference that is almost total but not quite. And in that other scene of colonial power, where history turns to farce and presence to ‘a part’ can be seen the twin figures of narcissism and paranoia that repeat furiously, uncontrollably.
    Thanks for your educated opinions.

    gerry

  2. #2
    Red5 is offline Webmaster, UsingEnglish.com
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    Default Re: Difficult or impossible sentences or constructions?

    Hi!

    I'll let someone else answer from a teachers' perspective, but I can offer your the following stats produced with our Online Text Analyser:

    Text 1:


    Total Word Count 79
    Total Unique Words 63
    Number of Sentences 3
    Average Words per Sentence 26.34
    Lexical Density 79.75%
    Fog Index 17.62

    Text 2:


    Total Word Count 180
    Total Unique Words 104
    Number of Sentences 5
    Average Words per Sentence 36.04
    Lexical Density 57.78%
    Fog Index 22.62


  3. #3
    Tdol is offline Editor, UsingEnglish.com
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    Default Re: Difficult or impossible sentences or constructions?

    The first is readily intellible tome, the second less so. The second is chockablock with terms that require specialist knowledge on the part of the reader. As it is clearly aimed at the specialist reader, this isn't necessarily a defect, but I didn't like it much. are they by the same writer? To be honest, the second struck me as the sort of writing that gets submitted to Priavte Eye's Pseuds corner (http://www.private-eye.co.uk/content...section.pseuds) maybe I'm being a bit harsh there, but it is heavy going.

  4. #4
    gerry Guest

    Default Re: Difficult or impossible sentences or constructions?

    By intuition?

    Tdol, on this sentence:

    Yet the association between difficulty and profundity might less generously be described as a manifestation in the literary sphere of a perversity familiar from emotional life, where people who are mysterious and elusive can inspire a respect in modest minds that reliable and clear ones do not.
    I guess you divine the meaning by intuition. Suppose you tell us the essential thrust of the sentence in twenty words or less, and do essential justice to the author, meaning what he essentially wants to say aside from telling the whole world about his acquaintance with so many things and ideas.

    About the second text, by intuition can you tell us in less than a fourth of the words volume employed by the author, his essential thrust, and do him justice, paring out all the things and ideas he also wants the world to know that he knows.

    On a less emotive note, do you think and wish that people with so much knowledge and ideas would write simply and concisely their most insightful thoughts, and just let the reader suspect their vast learning and abyss of wisdom. Hehehehe.

    gerry




    Quote Originally Posted by tdol
    The first is readily intellible tome, the second less so. The second is chockablock with terms that require specialist knowledge on the part of the reader. As it is clearly aimed at the specialist reader, this isn't necessarily a defect, but I didn't like it much. are they by the same writer? To be honest, the second struck me as the sort of writing that gets submitted to Priavte Eye's Pseuds corner (http://www.private-eye.co.uk/content...section.pseuds) maybe I'm being a bit harsh there, but it is heavy going.

  5. #5
    gerry Guest

    Default Re: Difficult or impossible sentences or constructions?

    Technical information wanted.

    Before anything else, thanks guys, for your replies and I derive good instructions from them.

    And before I forget, as I write in this box for writing my message, my lines of words automatically fold on reaching the right edge -- I use a bigger text size for writing and reading messages. Can the good people here tell me how to enable also the messages already published in this forum, namely to wrap around as lines reach the right edge of the box? As of now, I have to push the screen to the right and then to the left in order to read whole lines.

    To Red5, that online text analyzer is very interesting. Where can I find a free download of this application?

    I would like very much to know the meanings of the following three terms used in reporting the analysis of a text.

    Total Unique Words 63
    Lexical Density 79.75%
    Fog Index 17.62


    Thanks.

    gerry

    Quote Originally Posted by Red5
    Hi!

    I'll let someone else answer from a teachers' perspective, but I can offer your the following stats produced with our Online Text Analyser:

    Text 1:



    Total Word Count 79

    Total Unique Words 63
    Number of Sentences 3
    Average Words per Sentence 26.34
    Lexical Density 79.75%
    Fog Index 17.62
    Text 2:





    Total Word Count 180

    Total Unique Words 104
    Number of Sentences 5
    Average Words per Sentence 36.04
    Lexical Density 57.78%
    Fog Index 22.62



  6. #6
    Tdol is offline Editor, UsingEnglish.com
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    Default Re: Difficult or impossible sentences or constructions?

    The analyser is only available over the web, but it's free. there's a basic version and a more advanced version in the Member Area. Lexical density looks at the number of different words as a percentage. If I write a single sentence, every word may be different, so that would have a lexical density of 100%, but as I start repeating the density falls. grammatical words, which account for a huge amount of repetition, bring the score down. also, if I write about 'John', I will repeat his name, which will lower the density. The higher the density, the higher the vocabulary load. the Fog index is a method calcualting the number of difficult words, etc, to try to see how difficult a text is to read.

  7. #7
    gerry Guest

    Default Re: Difficult or impossible sentences or constructions?

    Thanks, and any more goodies coming?

    Dear Tdol:

    Thanks for the meanings of the terms used in reporting the analysis of a text.

    Are you disposed to favor me with the rest of my inquiries?

    On the first excerpt, I guess you divine the meaning by intuition. Suppose you tell us the essential thrust of the sentence in twenty words or less, and do essential justice to the author, meaning what he essentially wants to say aside from telling the whole world about his acquaintance with so many things and ideas.

    About the second text, by intuition can you tell us in less than a fourth of the words volume employed by the author, his essential thrust, and do him justice, paring out all the things and ideas he also wants the world to know that he knows.

    On a less emotive note, do you think and wish that people with so much knowledge and ideas would write simply and concisely their most insightful thoughts, and just let the reader suspect their vast learning and abyss of wisdom. Hehehehe.

    And before I forget, as I write in this box for writing my message, my lines of words automatically fold on reaching the right edge -- I use a bigger text size for writing and reading messages. Can the good people here tell me how to enable also the messages already published in this forum, namely to wrap around as lines reach the right edge of the box? As of now, I have to push the screen to the right and then to the left in order to read whole lines.
    I want to meet experts in English, brave souls, who are willing to face dense and abstruse writers to get down from their dais of a perch, and also their slavish editors.

    Hehehehe...

    gerry

    Quote Originally Posted by tdol
    The analyser is only available over the web, but it's free. there's a basic version and a more advanced version in the Member Area. Lexical density looks at the number of different words as a percentage. If I write a single sentence, every word may be different, so that would have a lexical density of 100%, but as I start repeating the density falls. grammatical words, which account for a huge amount of repetition, bring the score down. also, if I write about 'John', I will repeat his name, which will lower the density. The higher the density, the higher the vocabulary load. the Fog index is a method calcualting the number of difficult words, etc, to try to see how difficult a text is to read.

  8. #8
    gerry Guest

    Default Re: Difficult or impossible sentences or constructions?

    Any write-up available?

    Dear Tdol:

    Thanks for that online text analyzer.

    Is there some write-up on that application. I would like to know the principles and practices at the base of this application which is very helpful for my quest on how to penetrate dense and abstruse English writings -- which is not peculiar only to English.

    Thanks.

    gerry

    Analyse Your Text
    What Information Will I Get?
    Analyse text content using our online text analysis tool which give you statistics about a text including word count; unique words; number of sentences; average words per sentence; lexical density; and the Gunning Fog readability index. You also get a breakdown of words in the text, sorted by frequency or word length or the number of syllables in each word.

    Text to be Analysed:

  9. #9
    Tdol is offline Editor, UsingEnglish.com
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    Default Re: Difficult or impossible sentences or constructions?

    Not yet, I'm afraid- I haven't had time to do it- there just aren't enough hours in the day.

  10. #10
    Red5 is offline Webmaster, UsingEnglish.com
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    Default Re: Difficult or impossible sentences or constructions?

    I'll look into documenting the analyser in the near future - watch this space.

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