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  1. #1
    TheParser is offline VIP Member
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    Kindly R-K "jobs cleaning up"

    Would you kindly R-K this sentence:

    Unemployed people along the Gulf of Mexico are being given

    jobs cleaning up the beaches.

    Thank you very much. I do not know whether "cleaning" is a

    participle or a gerund following a deleted preposition. Thanks for

    any help.

  2. #2
    Frank Antonson's Avatar
    Frank Antonson is offline Senior Member
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    Re: Kindly R-K "jobs cleaning up"

    I think it could be either.

    "...cleaning jobs..." or "...jobs of cleaning..."

  3. #3
    TheParser is offline VIP Member
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    Re: Kindly R-K "jobs cleaning up"

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Antonson View Post
    I think it could be either.

    "...cleaning jobs..." or "...jobs of cleaning..."
    (1) Thank you SO much for your kind reply.

    (2) Just in case you get a really clever student next term who

    asks a similar question, I wanted to share something with you.

    (You have helped me so much over the months that I feel a sense

    of gratitude.) An extremely experienced ESL teacher told me that

    probably it would be best to parse "cleaning up the beaches"

    as a complement to "jobs." In other words, a gerund used as an object

    complement. That"s how I shall R-K that sentence. Thanks again. I bet

    your top-notch students will be serving up a lot of challenging questions.

    Thanks.

  4. #4
    Frank Antonson's Avatar
    Frank Antonson is offline Senior Member
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    Re: Kindly R-K "jobs cleaning up"

    Unemployed people along the Gulf of Mexico are being given

    jobs cleaning up the beaches.

    Do you mean "cleaning up the beaches" is duplicating "jobs" and therefore an appositive? I could see that.

  5. #5
    TheParser is offline VIP Member
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    Re: Kindly R-K "jobs cleaning up"

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Antonson View Post
    Unemployed people along the Gulf of Mexico are being given

    jobs cleaning up the beaches.

    Do you mean "cleaning up the beaches" is duplicating "jobs" and therefore an appositive? I could see that.
    Actually one teacher did call it an appositive. But that other very

    experienced teacher called it an objective complement. That is, the

    gerund phrase "cleaning up the beaches" is a complement of "jobs."

    That's how I shall diagram it. I think that Messrs. Reed and Kellogg

    would be proud of us.

  6. #6
    Frank Antonson's Avatar
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    Re: Kindly R-K "jobs cleaning up"

    Sorry, I don't see an objective complement.

    The sentence I use as an example of an objective complement is "The turned the apples red". "The sun made the plums prunes" would also work. In both cases you could insert the words "to be". I don't see a similar situation with your sentence. Objective complements are only produced by certain verbs -- much the same way that indirect objects are only produced by certain verbs.

  7. #7
    TheParser is offline VIP Member
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    Re: Kindly R-K "jobs cleaning up"

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Antonson View Post
    Sorry, I don't see an objective complement.

    The sentence I use as an example of an objective complement is "The turned the apples red". "The sun made the plums prunes" would also work. In both cases you could insert the words "to be". I don't see a similar situation with your sentence. Objective complements are only produced by certain verbs -- much the same way that indirect objects are only produced by certain verbs.
    Excellent point. I think that many learners are amazed that people

    differ on how to analyze some sentences. Some learners have said that

    in their languages there is one "right" way. Maybe we need an official

    Academy of the English Language!!!

  8. #8
    Frank Antonson's Avatar
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    Re: Kindly R-K "jobs cleaning up"

    Quote Originally Posted by TheParser View Post
    Excellent point. I think that many learners are amazed that people

    differ on how to analyze some sentences. Some learners have said that

    in their languages there is one "right" way. Maybe we need an official

    Academy of the English Language!!!
    I meant "The SUN turned the apples red." I forgot the word "sun".

    I am afraid that such an academy would end up doing prescriptive as opposed to descriptive work.

  9. #9
    TheParser is offline VIP Member
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    Re: Kindly R-K "jobs cleaning up"

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Antonson View Post
    I meant "The SUN turned the apples red." I forgot the word "sun".

    I am afraid that such an academy would end up doing prescriptive as opposed to descriptive work.
    Thank you for your kind note.

    (1) I am a proud prescriptivist. I have also found that learners are,

    too. It gives them -- and me -- a sense of confidence and

    security.

    (2) I have been googling and found many interesting viewpoints

    regarding gerunds as objective complements. Here is something from

    one professor:

    But who ever heard of them eating an owl?

    The good professor says eating an owl is an -ing participle clause

    standing in apposition to the pronoun, and sharing with it the

    functional position of object of a preposition.

    Then the good professor gives this sentence:

    I don't like them eating owls.

    He says that them is a direct object, and the -ing participle clause

    functions as an object complement.

    No wonder ordinary people like me are so confused.

    (3) Hope your preparations for opening day of school are coming along

    well.

    Thank you.

  10. #10
    Frank Antonson's Avatar
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    Re: Kindly R-K "jobs cleaning up"

    "I don't like THEIR eating owls" would solve the problem, but I see what you mean about an object complement. I guess it works. I am a bit rusty on them right now.

    For me, language is way too alive and complicated to prescribe it. I prefer to try to describe it. I doubt if Shakespeare could have thrived in a prescriptivist world. Then, there is the whole matter of what linguists call register.

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