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  1. #1
    Ermaks is offline Newbie
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    Words ending in [t] voiceless alveolar plosive

    Hi there

    I wanted to know if you have a word ending in [t], for example "stopped" and it is followed by another [t] as in

    "stopped to..."

    is the [t] of stopped spelled?

    We have seen in phonetics and phonology that words like (musn't can't wasn't weren't aren't, etc) the [t](voiceless alveolar plosive) is not spelled when it is followed by any consonant("consonant" as sound,of course).

    Is there any rule for this?

    I have that the [t] in "stopped practising" is spelled,though it is followed by a consonant(as sound)!

    Any help?

    Ernesto
    Last edited by Ermaks; 28-Jul-2010 at 05:09.

  2. #2
    Raymott's Avatar
    Raymott is offline VIP Member
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    Re: Words ending in [t] voiceless alveolar plosive

    Quote Originally Posted by Ermaks View Post
    Hi there

    I wanted to know if you have a word ending in [t], for example "stopped" and it is followed by another [t] as in

    "stopped to..."

    is the [t] of stopped spelled?

    We have seen in phonetics and phonology that words like (musn't can't wasn't weren't aren't, etc) the [t](voiceless alveolar plosive) is not spelled when it is followed by any consonant("consonant" as sound,of course).

    Is there any rule for this?

    I have that the [t] in "stopped practising" is spelled,though it is followed by a consonant(as sound)!

    Any help?

    Ernesto
    The 't' is always spelled. I think you mean pronounced.
    I disagree that the 't' in the negative modals is not pronounced. If the phrase is "You can't put that here", the /t/ is articulated at the alveolar ridge even though it's not released. You can't say "You can'put that here" without the tongue approximating the alveolar ridge.

    Whether the [t] of 'd' is released in "stopped to" is variable.

  3. #3
    Ermaks is offline Newbie
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    Re: Words ending in [t] voiceless alveolar plosive

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymott View Post
    The 't' is always spelled. I think you mean pronounced.
    I disagree that the 't' in the negative modals is not pronounced. If the phrase is "You can't put that here", the /t/ is articulated at the alveolar ridge even though it's not released. You can't say "You can'put that here" without the tongue approximating the alveolar ridge.

    Whether the [t] of 'd' is released in "stopped to" is variable.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Yes I wanted to mean " pronounced" ,you are right

    Oh! I'm thrilled. Because according to our teacher, it is not pronounced. She said because of the "elision".Then it is not pronounced

    Ernesto

  4. #4
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    BobK is offline Harmless drudge
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    Re: Words ending in [t] voiceless alveolar plosive

    A lot of teachers think that. But 'I can't trap it' doesn't sound the same as 'I can't wrap it'. As Raymott says, the [t] isn't always released. Sometimes it's replaced (or accompanied) by a glottal stop ([ʔ]) (even in educated speakers who would deny it vehemently!) But some kind of speech sound marks the end of 'can't'.

    b

  5. #5
    BobK's Avatar
    BobK is offline Harmless drudge
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    Re: Words ending in [t] voiceless alveolar plosive

    I've been brooding more and more about this. It explains the trouble I have with some students who have been taught to have a local accent. Maybe there are valid political reasons for this, and maybe oversimplifying English phonology makes life easier for some teachers, but I find it very frustrating .

    b

  6. #6
    apiz's Avatar
    apiz is offline Newbie
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    Re: Words ending in [t] voiceless alveolar plosive

    Maybe we should consider Weak Form and Strong Form also in this case.

  7. #7
    Ermaks is offline Newbie
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    Re: Words ending in [t] voiceless alveolar plosive

    So it all comes down to a simple problem of the allophonic variant : "Ellision"

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