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  1. #21
    TheParser is offline VIP Member
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    Default Re: long time no see

    Quote Originally Posted by ostap77 View Post
    Can you give the name of this book? I would very much like to read ti! Pleeeeease!
    Mr. Michael Swan's book is Practical English Usage. I think that

    many English learners (and native speakers like me) find it very helpful.

    He does not use a lot of technical terms. He just tells you how the

    language is used.

  2. #22
    TheParser is offline VIP Member
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    Default Re: long time no see

    Quote Originally Posted by ostap77 View Post
    I'd like to read that book. What's the full name of it?
    NOT A TEACHER

    (1) It is an old book, so I think that it may be very difficult to find.

    (2) It was written in 1931 by Professor George O. Curme. It is entitled

    A Grammar of the English Language. It consists of two volumes.

    It is a masterpiece. He explains the historical background of English

    grammar with many examples. It is a "must" for any serious student of

    English grammar. Maybe a good library might have copies.

  3. #23
    ostap77 is offline Key Member
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    Default Re: long time no see

    Quote Originally Posted by TheParser View Post
    NOT A TEACHER

    (1) It is an old book, so I think that it may be very difficult to find.

    (2) It was written in 1931 by Professor George O. Curme. It is entitled

    A Grammar of the English Language. It consists of two volumes.

    It is a masterpiece. He explains the historical background of English

    grammar with many examples. It is a "must" for any serious student of

    English grammar. Maybe a good library might have copies.
    I've just downloaded Michael Swan's "Practical English Usage". What page is it on which he explains how to use " Past Perfect Progressive with Present Perfect"?

  4. #24
    TheParser is offline VIP Member
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    Default Re: long time no see

    Quote Originally Posted by ostap77 View Post
    I've just downloaded Michael Swan's "Practical English Usage". What page is it on which he explains how to use " Past Perfect Progressive with Present Perfect"?
    NOT A TEACHER

    (1) I do not think that we were discussing the past perfect progressive

    with the present perfect.

    (2) In any case, I have the 1995 Oxford University Press edition.

    (3) The index says that sections (not pages) 418 - 420 discuss the use

    of the present perfect.

  5. #25
    e2e4 is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: long time no see

    Instead of "since I have seen you" we can say

    since I met you, since I had a word with you, since I saw you, since we had the meeting etc.

    But maybe "since I've seen you" means "since that event".

    Who would understand natives!

  6. #26
    Abstract Idea is offline Key Member
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    Default Re: long time no see

    Quote Originally Posted by e2e4 View Post
    Who would understand natives!
    I think you mean "native English speakers."

    I have been following this thread refraining myself not to reply in order not to disturb or muddle the discussion. But now I feel I must say some words.

    We all love the English language, that is a fact. But we know there is a huge difference between prescriptive and descriptive grammar!

    There is no such thing as right or wrong in such a simple form. Language is an interesting phenomenon we study - we observe it; we are curious about it. People communicate among themselves using language, there is no a priori "rule" about it. But we, as human beings, try to find out the secrets (that is the "rules") hidden under the language phenomena. Therefore we model language; currently there are many different models at our disposal, some good and some not so good, but none perfect. The "rules" of language are to be discovered and understood by us, not to rule our/their way of speaking telling right from wrong, it is the opposite. If English speakers say something in such and such a way, that is correct by definition; if we don't understand the reasons we should work harder and enhance our models. Our aim is to understand why he speaks that way, not the other way around.

    Of course the same is true for any other language besides English.

    Quote Originally Posted by e2e4 View Post
    All is permitted to the natives!
    But of course!!
    Last edited by Abstract Idea; 23-Sep-2010 at 02:34.

  7. #27
    ostap77 is offline Key Member
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    Default Re: long time no see

    Quote Originally Posted by Abstract Idea View Post
    I think you mean "native English speakers."

    I have been following this thread refraining myself not to reply in order not to disturb or muddle the discussion. But now I feel I must say some words.

    We all love the English language, that is a fact. But we know there is a huge difference between prescriptive and descriptive grammar!

    There is no such thing as right or wrong in such a simple form. Language is an interesting phenomena we study - we observe it; we are curious about it. People communicate among themselves using language, there is no a priori "rule" about it. But we, as human beings, try to find out the secrets (that is the "rules") hidden under the language phenomena. Therefore we model language; currently there are many different models at our disposal, some good and some not so good, but none perfect. The "rules" of language are to be discovered and understood by us, not to rule our/their way of speaking telling right from wrong, it is the opposite. If English speakers say something in such and such a way, that is correct by definition; if we don't understand the reasons we should work harder and enhance our models. Our aim is to understand why he speaks that way, not the other way around.

    Of course the same is true for any other language besides English.



    But of course!!

    Here are some grammar rules from one of the TheParser's posts


    (3) Here is some more from that grammarian:

    It is/has been 4 years since I have studied it. (refers to an action in

    the past)

    It is/has been 4 years that I have studied it. (the action continues)


    What would be the rule when to use Presebt Perfect with since?

    Judging from these examples If I say "since I have seen her", it will refer to an action in the past, whereas If I say " that I have seen her", it will refer to the present.

    " She's been in New York since I have seen her." (It would mean that all this time she's been living in New Yor since we last met and talked.)

    OR

    " She's been in New York that I have seen her."( It would mean that all this time she's been living in New York and I keep on seeing her on a regular basis)
    Last edited by ostap77; 20-Sep-2010 at 15:04.

  8. #28
    bhaisahab's Avatar
    bhaisahab is offline Moderator
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    Default Re: long time no see

    Quote Originally Posted by ostap77 View Post
    Here are some grammar rules from one of the TheParser's posts


    (3) Here is some more from that grammarian:

    It is/has been 4 years since I have studied it. (refers to an action in

    the past)

    It is/has been 4 years that I have studied it. (the action continues)


    What would be the rule when to use Presebt Perfect with since?

    Judging from these examples If I say "since I have seen her", it will refer to an action in the past, whereas If I say " that I have seen her", it will refer to the present.

    " She's been in New York since I have seen her." (It would mean that all this time she's been living in New Yor since we last met and talked.)

    OR

    " She's been in New York that I have seen her."( It would mean that all this time she's been living in New York and I keep on seeing her on a regular basis)
    "She's been in New York since I have seen her." You have the present perfect in the first part of the sentence, this gives you your time-line, the present perfect is not appropriate in the second part,
    "She has (she's) been in New York since I last saw her" this means that since you last saw her she has been in New York continuously, she has been staying there.
    "She has been to New York since I last saw her" means that since the last time you saw her she has visited New York, she is no longer there.

  9. #29
    ostap77 is offline Key Member
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    Default Re: long time no see

    Quote Originally Posted by bhaisahab View Post
    "She's been in New York since I have seen her." You have the present perfect in the first part of the sentence, this gives you your time-line, the present perfect is not appropriate in the second part,
    "She has (she's) been in New York since I last saw her" this means that since you last saw her she has been in New York continuously, she has been staying there.
    "She has been to New York since I last saw her" means that since the last time you saw her she has visited New York, she is no longer there.
    So we can't use Present Perfect in the second part of the sentence after "since" to state a fact in the past. What about the rules given by TheParser?

  10. #30
    Koronas is offline Member
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    Default Re: long time no see

    Quote Originally Posted by Abstract Idea View Post
    Language is an interesting phenomena
    As I live in Greece, I feel qualified to correct your usage of this Greek word. "Phenomena" is the plural form of "phenomenon".

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