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Thread: rant and rave

  1. #1
    English70 is offline Newbie
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    Default rant and rave

    What does "rant and raves" in that sentence mean?
    "You cannot expect me to tell a judge that. Just because you don't want to
    hear Kleman rant and rave doesn't mean that I have to..."

  2. #2
    e2e4 is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: rant and rave

    /A learner/

    From a dictionary "rant and rave" is a very angry and also uncontrolled long speech which is not easy understandable to the listeners.
    Last edited by e2e4; 19-Sep-2010 at 16:18.

  3. #3
    English70 is offline Newbie
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    Default Re: rant and rave

    What does "rant and raves" in that sentence mean?
    "You cannot expect me to tell a judge that. Just because you don't want to
    hear Kleman rant and rave doesn't mean that I have to..."

    I'd like to hear from a teacher, dont get me wrong, the definition from a dictionary is too general, I have a dictionary and I check every word before post a question.
    I need a explanation, definition or rewrite a sentence with a synonym (if possible)
    thanks

  4. #4
    Abstract Idea is offline Key Member
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    Default Re: rant and rave

    ----- Not an ESL teacher -----

    Quote Originally Posted by English70 View Post
    What does "rant and raves" in that sentence mean?
    "You cannot expect me to tell a judge that. Just because you don't want to
    hear Kleman rant and rave doesn't mean that I have to..."

    I'd like to hear from a teacher, dont get me wrong, the definition from a dictionary is too general, I have a dictionary and I check every word before post a question.
    I need a explanation, definition or rewrite a sentence with a synonym (if possible)
    thanks
    OK, while we wait for a teacher's explanation let me tell you that although I prefer c2c4, e2e4's post seems to be enough here.
    You need more context of course, but I would say that you don't want to hear Kleman's emotional and inflamed explanations. In Portuguese it would be something like "você não quer ouvir o lado esbravejante de Kleman" or the "discurso emocional do Kleman."

    It also seems that "rant and rave" is somewhat idiomatic. You see both "rant" and "rave" can be either noun or verb and from the dictionaries definitions they are synonyms. In your sentence the expression "rant and rave" seems to play a noun role.

    I have a question to add: If "rant and rave" really plays a noun role, wouldn't it be better to say "Kleman's rant and rave" ?


    A native speaker's opinion would sure be welcome here.

  5. #5
    riquecohen's Avatar
    riquecohen is offline VIP Member
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    Default Re: rant and rave

    The expression rant and rave is more often heard in the form of a verb. A rant, as Abstract Idea has said, is an emotional discourse and is both a verb and a noun. Rave has a similar definition (as well as others) as a verb, but as a noun it means something quite different. It´s for this reason that I would not use rant and rave in the role of a noun.
    Last edited by riquecohen; 19-Sep-2010 at 16:10.

  6. #6
    e2e4 is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: rant and rave

    /A learner/

    Quote Originally Posted by Abstract Idea View Post
    ----- Not an ESL teacher -----
    I have a question to add: If "rant and rave" really plays a noun role, wouldn't it be better to say "Kleman's rant and rave" ?

    A native speaker's opinion would sure be welcome here.
    I don't think it must be Kleman's rant and rave.

    Every rant and rave is unique!

    I wouldn't rant and rave as you would.
    We both can not imagine how English70 was ranting and raving for a while as the teachers didn't appear.

    Comparing to Gauss Law and Gauss' Law it could be Kleman's or Kleman Rant and Rave.

    This is how I see it.

  7. #7
    Abstract Idea is offline Key Member
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    Default Re: rant and rave

    Quote Originally Posted by e2e4 View Post

    We both can not imagine how English70 was ranting and raving for a while as the teachers didn't appear.
    Her claim for an English teacher's answer in a "Ask a Teacher" forum is a legitimate one.

    Quote Originally Posted by e2e4 View Post

    Comparing to Gauss Law and Gauss' Law it could be Kleman's or Kleman Rant and Rave.
    Newton's Second Law, Faraday's Law, Noether's Theorem, ...

    Without the possessive and considering "rant and rave" as a noun, in the statement "Kleman rant and rave," Kleman would function as an adjective modifying "rant and rave."
    That reminds me of this old interesting thread:
    http://www.usingenglish.com/forum/as...as-speach.html

    But I wonder whether you could also consider "rant and rave" as a verb in this context. In that case, my question would be why not "... hear Kleman ranting and raving ... ". Anyway a gerund is to be considered a noun, right? I guess "ranting and raving" is correct but not idiomatic.

  8. #8
    Koronas is offline Member
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    Default Re: rant and rave

    Quote Originally Posted by Abstract Idea View Post
    I have a question to add: If "rant and rave" really plays a noun role, wouldn't it be better to say "Kleman's rant and rave" ?
    It is not only better but essential to use the possessive case for the noun role. Without that, it has to be a pair of verbs.

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