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  1. #11
    M56 Guest

    Default Re: as much ... as ...

    Quote Originally Posted by X Mode
    If an adjective is not gradable, and someone uses it as a gradable adjective, I believe I'll notice it. In other words, I can separate language which does not sound good because it is not usual, and probably incorrect, and language which might seem to be "not okay" in a rather small "technical" way, but in reality really is - OKAY.

    So it seems that although "unnecessary" is an ungradable adjective, it can be modified with an extreme adverb. However, I would not do the same, for example, with "foremost".

    I can hear myself saying "that was completely unnecessary". - no problem. If one says there's something wrong with it, this, in my opinion, means that one learned English after having acquired it as a first language. One should trust that one speaks correctly. I'm not relearning anything, thank you - if you know what I mean. My language is correct.
    <So it seems that although "unnecessary" is an ungradable adjective, it can be modified with an extreme adverb. However, I would not do the same, for example, with "foremost". >

    "Foremost" is clearly ungradable. It means "preceding all
    others"; "un/necessary" is not clearly ungradeable because it is an used in subjective evaluation. It has modality.

  2. #12
    Mister Micawber's Avatar
    Mister Micawber is offline Key Member
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    Default Re: as much ... as ...

    .
    I am more curious as to why I didn't get email notification of postings to this thread until just a couple of hours ago. Has the system been acting up, tdol, or have I tweaked something I shouldn't have on my computer?

    .

  3. #13
    Steven D's Avatar
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    Default Re: as much ... as ...

    Quote Originally Posted by M56
    <So it seems that although "unnecessary" is an ungradable adjective, it can be modified with an extreme adverb. However, I would not do the same, for example, with "foremost". >

    "Foremost" is clearly ungradable. It means "preceding all
    others"; "un/necessary" is not clearly ungradeable because it is an used in subjective evaluation. It has modality.

    Yeah, I could tell. Ya know what I mean? Maybe?

  4. #14
    M56 Guest

    Default Re: as much ... as ...

    Quote Originally Posted by X Mode
    Yeah, I could tell. Ya know what I mean? Maybe?
    I do indeed.

  5. #15
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    Default Re: as much ... as ...

    I agree with X Mode: the phrase "(just) as much" is fronted for emphasis:

    This is unnecessary (just) as much as it is undesirable.
    This is (just) as much unnecessary as it is undesirable.

    The fronted example is based on analogy, or rather follows another pattern in the grammar:

    This is just as red as that is red.
    This is red just as that is red.

  6. #16
    navi tasan is offline Key Member
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    Default Re: as much ... as ...

    Is this one correct:
    It was unnecessary as it was undesirable.

    I think here there is no quantification. What you are saying is that it was both unnecessary and undesirable.

  7. #17
    Steven D's Avatar
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    Default Re: as much ... as ...

    Quote Originally Posted by navi tasan
    Is this one correct:
    It was unnecessary as it was undesirable.

    I think here there is no quantification. What you are saying is that it was both unnecessary and undesirable.
    I should be "It was as unnecessary as it was undesirable." This means both are equal. By saying they are both equal, this opens the possibility that they might not be equal for some reason. I understand this sentence to be a comparison.

    http://dictionary.cambridge.org/defi...4196&dict=CALD

    "It was unnecessary, as it was undesirable." - With out the first "as", the sentence means "It was unnecessary because it was undesirable." I don't think that's the intended meaning of the sentence though.

    http://dictionary.cambridge.org/defi...4204&dict=CALD

  8. #18
    Steven D's Avatar
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    Default Re: as much ... as ...

    Quote Originally Posted by M56
    That's exactly as I see it. What worries me is when native speakers reject such constructions because they demand that the adjective in question is absolute... ungradable.

    And what do you suppose causes this? How do they arrive at that conclusion?
    Last edited by Steven D; 03-Jul-2005 at 17:02.

  9. #19
    navi tasan is offline Key Member
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    Default Re: as much ... as ...

    Thanks X mode,
    I agree that the sentence needs a comma. And there is no doubt that it can have the meaning you attribute to it. But can't it also mean: It was one and also the other.

    He played the guitar, as did I. (and I did as well)
    He played the guitar, as I played the piano. (two meanings: at the same time and also)
    He was rude to you, as he was to me.
    He was violent, as he was rude.

  10. #20
    Steven D's Avatar
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    Default Re: as much ... as ...

    .
    Last edited by Steven D; 03-Jul-2005 at 17:03. Reason: duplicate post

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