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    #1

    CELTA- Initial qualification

    Just to be clear- CELTA is an entry-level teaching qualification.
    According to Cambridge ESOL "CELTA is an initial qualification for people with little or no previous teaching experience"
    Cambridge ESOL: Certificate in English Language Teaching to Adults (CELTA)
    As they are the course providers, they should know.

  1. ICAL_Pete's Avatar
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    #2

    Re: CELTA- Initial qualification

    They do say this. The course is intensive and my experience of it was that those who had teaching experience beforehand had a much easier time of it in that they weren't bogged down by basic issues which the new teachers were struggling with. We had an advantage there because we had experience.

  2. 5jj's Avatar
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    #3

    Re: CELTA- Initial qualification

    Quote Originally Posted by ICAL_Pete View Post
    They do say this. The course is intensive and my experience of it was that those who had teaching experience beforehand had a much easier time of it in that they weren't bogged down by basic issues which the new teachers were struggling with. We had an advantage there because we had experience.
    Those of you new to this forum might like to know that ICAL_Pete is a firm believer in the value of online TEFL Certificates, which most teachers, trainers and employers view with suspicion.

    He also believes that people who wish to take a CELTA or Trinity Cert TESOL course would fare better if they first took an online course offered by his company.

    Finally he doubts the CELTA and Trinity course providers themself when they admit that their courses are 'an initial qualification for people with little or no previous teaching experience'. What else could a 4-week course be, when in most countries in the world a teaching qualifiation recognised by the government involves an absolute minimum of three years' training?

    Of course, people with no degree or even A Level in English find the course hard going, but the pass rates suggest that it is achievable by nearly all who work hard.

    So, ICAL Pete is entitled to his opinion, but you will find few in the profession who agree with him - except those providing online courses.
    Last edited by 5jj; 28-Oct-2010 at 17:09. Reason: typo

  3. I'm With Stupid's Avatar
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    #4

    Re: CELTA- Initial qualification

    Quote Originally Posted by ICAL_Pete View Post
    They do say this. The course is intensive and my experience of it was that those who had teaching experience beforehand had a much easier time of it in that they weren't bogged down by basic issues which the new teachers were struggling with. We had an advantage there because we had experience.
    That wasn't my experience. I found the people with no experience or one year's experience adapted the best. Two people who had over 10 years experience each really struggled to adapt (and found accepting criticism of their teaching very difficult), although they did pass in the end. The only 3 people to get a Pass B had no teaching experience before the course. The two people who dropped out due to sub-standard lessons both had several years experience. I think a small amount of experience can help in the first few lessons (by which I mean proper classroom experience), but I think you should be doing the CELTA pretty soon into your career, and ideally spend the next couple of years at a school where they actually allow you to develop what you've learnt.

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    #5

    Re: CELTA- Initial qualification

    The reason I posted this was because there had been some arguing over what the CELTA is or is not and it was getting a bit heated.

    It is a matter of fact and not a question of opinion that it is an entry-level qualification. It is a question of opinion whether it should or should not be- I think it should. ICAL_Pete, who openly declares his interest in this, argues the case for his courses.

    Naturally, this means there is going to be disagreement over the issue, so I am asking that a) the facts are respected and the CELTA and Trinity courses are not presented as being something they are not, and b) the disagreements with those who present other views (and qualifications) are mannerly and challenge ideas rather than people.

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    #6

    Re: CELTA- Initial qualification

    Quote Originally Posted by fivejedjon View Post
    Those of you new to this forum might like to know that ICAL_Pete is a firm believer in the value of online TEFL Certificates, which most teachers, trainers and employers view with suspicion.
    Not quite true. A lot of employers are happy to accept our course and other online courses. Note also that parts of the CELTA course are also offered online now so CELTA is stepping in this direction as well and understand that many employers are happy with online certifications.

    Quote Originally Posted by fivejedjon View Post
    He also believes that people who wish to take a CELTA or Trinity Cert TESOL course would fare better if they first took an online course offered by his company.
    No, I didn't say that at all so please don't put words into my mouth. I said I felt CELTA was better for teachers with experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by fivejedjon View Post
    Finally he doubts the CELTA and Trinity course providers themself when they admit that their courses are 'an initial qualification for people with little or no previous teaching experience'.
    Well they have their agenda to push the same as anyone else does. They want their course to be as popular as possible so they're going to promote it thus.

    Quote Originally Posted by fivejedjon View Post
    So, ICAL Pete is entitled to his opinion, but you will find few in the profession who agree with him - except those providing online courses.
    Thank you for allowing me my opinion.

    Do you have any kind of statistics to back up the assertion that few in the profession agree with me? I ask because online courses are immensely popular (see CELTA making part of their course online above; I wonder if it will ever go fully online like ours?) and there are many, many teachers and teacher trainers out there involved in online courses.

    Quite simply, if people didn't think that online courses were useful and effective they wouldn't exist.

    But this is perhaps straying from the topic. Is CELTA a course for those without experience? Some say yes, some say no.

  5. 5jj's Avatar
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    #7

    Re: CELTA- Initial qualification

    Quote Originally Posted by Tdol View Post
    I am asking that... the disagreements with those who present other views (and qualifications) are mannerly and challenge ideas rather than people.
    Tdol is right, Pete. My apologies to you (and other thread-users) if my initial response to your first posting was too personal. We can continue this discussion via PMs if you are interested.


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    #8

    Re: CELTA- Initial qualification

    I got a TESOL certificate 12 years ago and now everyone is talking about the CELTA. Does this mean I should go back and get the CELTA??

    Thing is, I've been teaching abroad for 12 years and would like to return to teach in the UK. What are my prospects with a TESOL? I posted this question on another forum and was told I should expect low pay and low job security. Somewhat deflating as I want to continue my career but not as an expat. Wondering if there's a good strategy to achieve this.

  6. 5jj's Avatar
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    #9

    Re: CELTA- Initial qualification

    Quote Originally Posted by joolzey View Post
    I got a TESOL certificate 12 years ago and now everyone is talking about the CELTA. Does this mean I should go back and get the CELTA??

    Thing is, I've been teaching abroad for 12 years and would like to return to teach in the UK. What are my prospects with a TESOL? I posted this question on another forum and was told I should expect low pay and low job security. Somewhat deflating as I want to continue my career but not as an expat. Wondering if there's a good strategy to achieve this.
    There are some establishments that insist on a CELTA (or its predecessors) or a Trinity Cert for newly qualified teachers. Whatever the nature of your qualification, I doubt if anyone will be too picky about a person with 12 years' experience.

    The point about low pay and prospects is to do with the UK, not with your qualifications, I am afraid. Just look at the ads. I don't know how people survive in the UK. Of course, if you have a teaching qualification recognised by the Department for Education (or whatever it is called today), that's a different kettle of fish - then there may be openings in the state system, where pay is considerably less bad than in the private sector.

  7. I'm With Stupid's Avatar
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    #10

    Re: CELTA- Initial qualification

    Quote Originally Posted by ICAL_Pete View Post
    I ask because online courses are immensely popular (see CELTA making part of their course online above; I wonder if it will ever go fully online like ours?) and there are many, many teachers and teacher trainers out there involved in online courses.
    It's impossible to do a practical teaching component online, so no they won't. The six hours observed teaching is what makes a CELTA and other certificates respected (as well as a legal requirement for teachers in countries like the one I'm in). To me, an online teaching course makes about as much sense as an online driving course. Without actually doing it, there's a severe limit to what you can learn. Not only that, but I'd question how useful a lot of the theory on the CELTA course would be outside of the context of regular teaching with feedback. Teaching is a practical profession, so without a practical component, the CELTA would be pretty pointless.

    Quite simply, if people didn't think that online courses were useful and effective they wouldn't exist.
    If people didn't think homeopathy was effective, it wouldn't exist either. The popularity of something isn't evidence of its effectiveness. Note, I'm not claiming your courses have nothing to offer, just that this isn't a particularly good argument for their effectiveness.

    But just on the employer attitude thing, I've only ever seen two types of advert for an entry-level ELT position. The first is degree plus CELTA or equivalent. The second is degree plus nothing. So where do online courses fit into all this?

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