[Grammar] Are these Sentences Grammatically Wrong??

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pinbong

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Hi, teachers:

I'm a chinese and I'm getting myself prepared for the spoken language lately. And I've noticed that Americans tend to use adjectives as adverbs. Maybe I'm wrong. Being a foreigner I can not tell if they're grammatically correct. The following are some examples: (The sentences in the brackets are what I think should be the correct usage according to grammar)

He's doing real good. (Me: He's doing really good )

He's doing terrible. (Me: He's doing terribly.)

.....

oh, there were a lot of examples in my head. How come all of a sudden I can think of only two?? Anyways, I wonder do British speak the same way??(I mean using adjectives and adverbs?) Are these expressions grammatically correct or not?? Or they're just acceptable in everyday speaking? Can I use them in formal writing??

Also, I've noticed that native speakers tend to omit "if" when saying an "if" clause, don't they?. Such as:

"you do that again I'm gonna beat you." (Me: If you do that again I'm going to beat you.)

Will update this post when I think of more examples.

Thanks for all the answers in advance.:)
 
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pinbong

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oh, another one just occured to me.

Back in middle school, I was taught an expression "If I were you...". Using "were" instead of "was" is subjunctive mood. So I was taught.

But in real life, I've heard many Americans say:"If I was you..." (when the mood intended was obviously subjunctive)

And when I said "If I were you...." I got corrected by native speakers all the time. Now I almost tend to think my old grammar knowledge is outdated and the new rule is "If I was you..."

Would like to have a professional explanation on this. Thanks a lot.:)
 

Barb_D

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I consider the real/terrible examples wrong on any type of exam or in any type of writing more formal than an email to your friends. I don't speak that way, my children don't speak that way, and my colleagues don't speak that way.

While we are losing the subjunctive in sentences like "If he was serious" instead of "If he were serious," I have never heard anyone, American or others, say "If I was you." Ever. Are you sure you've heard that? Or could it have been "he was" statements instead?
 

pinbong

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Thank you, Mr./Ms. Barb_D.

I heard the real/terrible sentences all the time from Americans. Because this summer vacation I had a job and needed to communicate with a lot of Americans.

Actually I've never heard one of them say "it's really good." . I could be wrong though. Maybe they just pronounce "really" similar to "real". Maybe it's just another example of American slurring. But some of them exchange emails with me and they write "real good" in emails too.

About the "If I was you...", when I said "If I were you I would have...." I got corrected by one of my American clients. He did say he was not very good with grammar. But I thought he was a native speaker after all and could be relied on for everyday speaking.

And "He is doing terrible" was from an American sitcom Friends I just watched last night. It was spoken by Monica's father(edited to add: Season 3 Episode 1, 19:18 When Monica said "How's he doing?" Her father answered "He's doing terrible."). Similar "adjectives as adverbs" examples abound in that show, making me think these adjectives are now taking place of adverbs, at least in American English. (I'm less familiar with British accents. Not sure if Brits speak the same.) When I say "really good", the message I read from Americans' eyes seems to be "you're too formal. We native speakers don't speak that way."

I admit my listening ability is far from good. But on the question of "real/terrible", I think I caught them right. Having been exposed to so many "real good"s, I myself now use "real" a lot. It almost becomes habitual.

You're a writer and maybe your close ones all tend to be stricter with your daily speeches?? I do want to learn correct English. But I also don't want to sound too formal like a FOB foreigner (even if I am.)

Would love to hear your advice.
 
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Barb_D

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Mr.? Seriously? That's what the avatar looks like?


There's nothing wrong with using correct English. Shall and whom (except right after a preposition) are just about dead, but the correct use of adverbs and the subjunctive is alive and well.

Your English is amazing and I would not have known you were not a native speaker. Don't compromise just because the people around you do.

I say really good, doing terribly, and if I were. No one thinks it's weird.
 

pinbong

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Haha, thanks for the compliment, Ms. Barb_D.

About the avatar, many Chinese netizens use avatars of the opposite sex. Few disclose their true gender.

My English is not as good as you think. I still have problems with listening, even with reading. There're too many slangs and idioms in English.

My English is considered by native speakers comparatively better than most of my classmates. But I can not score higher than many of them, which is frustrating.

There're now many foreigners in China. Most of the spoken English teachers in my college come from USA. I don't have many problems communicating with them(grammatical errors are often made though.) I write better because it's slower-paced and I can think as I write. When speaking I can not.

According to many Chinese students abroad, native speakers tend to speak way faster in their home countries than in China. I don't know if there're Chinese around you. As far as I know, few Chinese students can communicate freely with native speakers even if they score high in GRE and Toefl.

I just want to improve my listening ability. But I've realised it's the hardest part. There're too many background knowledge to learn.
 

5jj

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I have never heard anyone, American or others, say "If I was you." Ever. Are you sure you've heard that? Or could it have been "he was" statements instead?


As pnibong said: "You're a writer and maybe your close ones all tend to be stricter with your daily speeches?"

I have to report that I frequently hear "if I was you", even from educated people and teachers (not necessarily the same thing;-))
 

riquecohen

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Thank you, Mr./Ms. Barb_D.

I heard the real/terrible sentences all the time from Americans. Because this summer vacation I had a job and needed to communicate with a lot of Americans.

And "He is doing terrible" was from an American sitcom Friends I just watched last night. It was spoken by Monica's father(edited to add: Season 3 Episode 1, 19:18 When Monica said "How's he doing?" Her father answered "He's doing terrible."). Similar "adjectives as adverbs" examples abound in that show, making me think these adjectives are now taking place of adverbs, at least in American English.

.
It seems that you've been associating with the wrong Americans. I, like Barb, have never uttered anything like yor examples, nor have I heard anything like that from anyone I know. Don't expect to hear "correct" English on American sitcoms.
 

MrRubik

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Definitely don't compromise for the sake of others' ignorances, just have more confidence in yourself because you obviously have very good English. In the presence of foreigners, natives, even ones less versed in issues of grammar, always try to correct foreigners' grammar. It's normally nothing more than what sounds natural to them and what doesn't, not anything based on knowledge of grammar. RE Barb_d: Are you just referring to American English in regards to 'shall'? because 'shall' is very much prevalent in British English.
 

Barb_D

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RE Barb_d: Are you just referring to American English in regards to 'shall'? because 'shall' is very much prevalent in British English.

Yes, the original post was about Americans' use of English. Broadly speaking, shall lives on (here) only in questions ("Shall we...?") and in contract language ("the Parties shall..."). I've never heard an American say "I shall send that to you in the morning." I never use it in an affirmative statement.
 

Verona_82

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Being very interested in the English grammar, I've just done some research into this was/were problem. That's what I've found out :)

Advanced Grammar in Use only says that "in unreal conditions we use a past tense in the if-clause" and gives the following example: "If my grandfather was/were still alive, he would be a hundred today".

According to my CAE/CPE preparation book, "both was and were are common in informal English but were is sometimes more appropriate in formal, written Enlish and is always used in the phrase 'if I were you..."

Murphy (one of early editions) says "in if-sentences and after wish you can use were instead of was: If I was/were you, I wouldn't buy that coat".

I was taught to say "if I were you" at school. However, I was also taught to use 'shall' with I and we for future tenses, which led to huge problems later :-D
 

5jj

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RE Barb_d: 'shall' is very much prevalent in British English.

Biber records the following figures;

Frequency in conversation of volition/prediction modals with intrinsic and extrinsic meanings (frequency per million words):

intrinsic-volition: will - 800; shall - 200
extrinsic-prediction:will - 1,000; shall - 0*
ambiguous: will - 3,750; shall - 50*

These two figures for shall may be reversed -it is hard to see from Biber's graph. Wherever they belong, the figures are clearly much lower than the figure for will.

Biber, Douglas et al (1999) Longman Grammar of Spoken and Written English, Harlow: Longman.
 

MrRubik

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Biber records the following figures;

Frequency in conversation of volition/prediction modals with intrinsic and extrinsic meanings (frequency per million words):

intrinsic-volition: will - 800; shall - 200
extrinsic-prediction:will - 1,000; shall - 0*
ambiguous: will - 3,750; shall - 50*

These two figures for shall may be reversed -it is hard to see from Biber's graph. Wherever they belong, the figures are clearly much lower than the figure for will.

Biber, Douglas et al (1999) Longman Grammar of Spoken and Written English, Harlow: Longman.

It would seem you posted that to somehow contradict what I said. My comment was in reference to someone saying that 'shall' was "just about dead", not knowing whether they were referring to both American and British English or one of the two I asked for them to clarify. It would seem from your figures, although I can't say I fully understand them(!), that 'shall' gets substantial usage which is all I wanted to say. I wasn't trying to say that it is used more than 'will' IF that's what you thought. Speaking merely of my experience I hear 'shall' everyday so, for me, this is enough to warrant saying it is prevalent in its use. Could you explain what the 'intrinsic-volition' and 'extrinsic-prediction' mean? I know the words just not how they're being used here.
 

5jj

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It would seem you posted that to somehow contradict what I said.
Not to contradict, but to suggest that 'prevalent' might not be the most appropriate word.
Speaking merely of my experience I hear 'shall' everyday so, for me, this is enough to warrant saying it is prevalent in its use. Could you explain what the 'intrinsic-volition' and 'extrinsic-prediction' mean?
I'll send you a PM on that. I think we are getting too far off-topic on this thread.
 

MrRubik

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ok, good point!
 
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