from which it was derived

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fenglish

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Hi,

Found below sentence from Answers.com : statistic: Definition from Answers.com

A numerical value, such as standard deviation or mean, that characterizes the sample or population from which it was derived.

If remove "from" from above sentence, does the meaning has any changes??

As in : A numerical value, such as standard deviation or mean, that characterizes the sample or population which it was derived.

In my opinion, it is the same without the "from" before "which", I cannot feel any changes of the meaning.

Thanks.
 

5jj

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Hi,

Found below sentence from Answers.com : statistic: Definition from Answers.com

A numerical value, such as standard deviation or mean, that characterizes the sample or population from which it was derived.

If you remove "from" from the above sentence, does the meaning [STRIKE]has any[/STRIKE] change[STRIKE]s?[/STRIKE]?

From is necessary. Note that it could be placed after derived with no change of meaning
 

fenglish

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From is necessary. Note that it could be placed after derived with no change of meaning

Now I can feel the change and understand the meaning if "from" is placed after "derived".

It is hard to understand if using "from/of which" or "from/of that", are all of this kind of phrases have the same usage like the above sentence?? Sometimes I will get confusing above it.

By the way, why "has any" should be deleted from "does the meaning has any changes" ??
 

5jj

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By the way, why "has any" should be deleted from "does the meaning has any changes" ??

The verb is far more natural:

The meaning changes.
Does the meaning change?


Does the meaning have any changes? is not really acceptable English here.
If you wanted the noun, you'd have to say," Is there a change of/in meaning?"
 

fenglish

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The verb is far more natural:

The meaning changes.
Does the meaning change?


Does the meaning have any changes? is not really acceptable English here.
If you wanted the noun, you'd have to say," Is there a change of/in meaning?"

Today when looking for the definition of "penny" from my phone dictionary, I found below similarly sentence which uses "of which" :

Penny: the smallest unit of money in Britain of which there are 100 in a pound, or a small coin worth this much.


Can I rewrite the above sentence like below? As in:

Penny: the smallest unit of money in Britain which there are 100 of in a pound, or a small coin worth this much.

I still don't understand the usage of "of/from which/that", please guide me the correct way to use such words.
 

fenglish

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Raymott

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Today when looking for the definition of "penny" from my phone dictionary, I found below similarly sentence which uses "of which" :

Penny: the smallest unit of money in Britain of which there are 100 in a pound, or a small coin worth this much.

Can I rewrite the above sentence like below? As in:

Penny: the smallest unit of money in Britain which there are 100 of in a pound, or a small coin worth this much.

I still don't understand the usage of "of/from which/that", please guide me the correct way to use such words.
Hi fenglish,
It might be easier to explain by analogy with your native language. Can you tell us what it is?
 

fenglish

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Hi fenglish,
It might be easier to explain by analogy with your native language. Can you tell us what it is?

I come from Asia,

I am trying to forget my native language when using English, because I know this is the only way that can help me speak English in naturally.

Please explain to me all in English.
 

Raymott

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I come from Asia,

I am trying to forget my native language when using English, because I know this is the only way that can help me speak English in naturally.

Please explain to me all in English.
That's OK. It's just that you have English listed on your profile as your native language, but you make very basic mistakes that a native speaker wouldn't make. It's hard to know what to take for granted in those circumstances.
 

fenglish

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That's OK. It's just that you have English listed on your profile as your native language, but you make very basic mistakes that a native speaker wouldn't make. It's hard to know what to take for granted in those circumstances.

Thanks for pointing out my mistakes.

Can you explain in detail or guide with some examples? Why?
 

Raymott

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Thanks for pointing out my mistakes.

Can you explain in detail or guide with some examples? Why?
I'm not sure I understand. Do you mean you want a detailed explanation of why it's confusing to teach questions of basic English to someone who says their native language is English?
I'll give one example: If your native language, or your best language, or the language you spoke as a child, is actually English, then we can't assume you've achieved fluency in any language at all. That might have some bearing on how you're answered.

But that's a side issue. Perhaps there are many people who learn little bits of lots of languages and never gain a basic fluency in any. If that's the case, it's probably best on an ESL site like this to put one of your other languages as your native language.
 

fenglish

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I'm not sure I understand. Do you mean you want a detailed explanation of why it's confusing to teach questions of basic English to someone who says their native language is English?
I'll give one example: If your native language, or your best language, or the language you spoke as a child, is actually English, then we can't assume you've achieved fluency in any language at all. That might have some bearing on how you're answered.

But that's a side issue. Perhaps there are many people who learn little bits of lots of languages and never gain a basic fluency in any. If that's the case, it's probably best on an ESL site like this to put one of your other languages as your native language.

I originally mean why "It's hard to know what to take for granted in those circumstances"? I want a detailed explanation of it.

From you answer, I think my English is still very bad, right?

I feel a little sadness now.:cry:
 

lauralie2

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A numerical value, such as standard deviation or mean, that characterizes the sample or population from which it was derived.


Penny: the smallest unit of money in Britain of which there are 100 in a pound, or a small coin worth this much.
The pattern you're dealing with works like this. Either the preposition is left at the end (1) or it is moved closer to its object (2):


(1) ...the sample which it was derived from.
(2) ...the sample from which it was derived.
(1) ...smallest unit of money which there are 100 of
(2) ...smallest unit of money of which there are 100

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Correction

If I remove "from" [STRIKE]from above sentence[/STRIKE], does the meaning [STRIKE]has any changes??[/STRIKE]change?


Alternatively,

  • ..., are there any changes in meaning?
  • ..., is there any change in meaning?
  • ..., does the meaning change any?


Note,

  • ..., does the meaning has... :cross:
    • the verb 'has' should be in its base form
      • ..., does the meaning have... :tick:
        • the auxiliary 'does' carries tense
          • the meaning does have... :tick:
          • Ex: If I remove 'from', does the meaning change? <base verb>
 

lauralie2

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I'm not sure I understand. Do you mean you want a detailed explanation of why it's confusing to teach questions of basic English to someone who says their native language is English
How absurd. The PO's question is clearly stated in Post #5:
fenglish said:
I still don't understand the usage of "of/from which/that", please guide me the correct way to use such words.
Is the question too complicated for you guys?
 

fenglish

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The pattern you're dealing with works like this. Either the preposition is left at the end (1) or it is moved closer to its object (2):
...
Is the question too complicated for you guys?

Thanks.

The question is not so complicated actually, I just don't know the syntax and when to use it.

But now I have understood from your detailed explanation, thanks.
 

5jj

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How absurd. The PO's question is clearly stated in Post #5:Is the question too complicated for you guys?
Yes Raymott, you really are absurd!
I expect you thought you were addressing the question in #10, (as did Fenglish, it seems, but that's irrelevant).
Didn't you realise that 5 comes before 10? Is that too complicated for you?
 

Raymott

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Yes Raymott, you really are absurd!
I expect you thought you were addressing the question in #10, (as did Fenglish, it seems, but that's irrelevant).
Didn't you realise that 5 comes before 10? Is that too complicated for you?
Sometimes questions go in a queue and sometimes on a stack. I was applying the Last In/ First Out principle in this case. :)
 
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