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  1. #21
    SoothingDave is offline VIP Member
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    Default Re: subjunctive or not

    Quote Originally Posted by swimagic View Post

    With respect to the "won out" part, i just think it doesnt make sense (in meaning) to be indicative.
    As far as I know, Republicans' challenges to the health-care overhaul are still having trouble to be permitted to go to trial (in some states), let alone in effect winnning out. then why the past indicative tense?

    Thx again.
    They have "won out" because they have caused the Republicans to win the control of the US House, and to make significant gains in the US Senate. If elections are about ideas, this election was about Obama and the Democrats use of their power to enact unpopular legislation.

    The election of Republicans in great numbers in the recent election was a repudiation of the Democrats behavior.

    So the Republican ideas did "win out" in the recent election.

  2. #22
    swimagic is offline Newbie
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    Default Re: subjunctive or not

    Quote Originally Posted by Pedroski View Post
    Swimagic: this is not a Chinese forum, but help me out here please: who is waiting for whom??

    你们等我一会儿。我等你们一会儿。
    你们等我一会儿, You (guys), (plz) await me for a while -------- it's more like an imperative.
    我等你们一会儿, I'll await you for a while.

    I'll elaboarte in the following post.
    Last edited by swimagic; 07-Dec-2010 at 09:58. Reason: edited

  3. #23
    corum is offline Banned
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    Default Re: subjunctive or not

    Quote Originally Posted by Pedroski View Post
    Prepositions are my pets. I should really, sincerely like to see 'come' used as a prepo.
    Here you are, my best friend:

    come
    preposition
    informal
    when a specified time is reached or event happens:
    I don‘t think that they’ll be far away from honours come the new season
    definition of come from Oxford Dictionaries Online

    ---

    come - definition
    preposition, informal
    at a particular time in the future or when a particular event happens
    Come summer, all the building work should be finished.
    http://www.macmillandictionary.com/d...ome_54#come_57

  4. #24
    swimagic is offline Newbie
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    Default Re: subjunctive or not

    Quote Originally Posted by Pedroski View Post
    你们等我一会儿。我等你们一会儿。
    in the active voice, chinese words are mostly arranged as SUBJECT + VERB + OBJECT in a sentence.
    我等你 I (will) wait for you.

    the reason is that we have a relatively loose grammatical system, and the form of words (i mean of all words: nouns, verbs, you name it) NEVER change at all, so if we change the order, the meaning of a sentence may change accordingly.
    我爱她 i love her
    她爱我 she loves me

    we also use inverted sentences, more like an "it is ... that" structure in english.
    你才是我最爱的 it's you who i love the most.

    the passive voice in chinese is pretty much the same as in english, except that we put "by sb." inbetween.
    A被B打了. A was by B beaten.

    Also, pay attention to "了".
    When without a time reference, in most cases, it indicates the past tense or the past participle.
    我吃了个苹果. i ate/have eaten an apple.

    But, when used WITH a time reference, the tense is restricted to the time, and 了 almost means nothing at all.
    昨天,我吃了个苹果 - yesterday, i ate an apple.
    已经吃了个苹果 - i have eaten an apple.
    要去吃个苹果了 - i'm gonna go eat an apple.
    正在做作业了 - (context: mom asks a kid if he's still playing) - I am doing my homework ALREADY.
    车祸发生之前已经预感到了. - He had anticipated the car accident before it really happened.
    Last edited by swimagic; 07-Dec-2010 at 22:50.

  5. #25
    philo2009 is offline Key Member
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    Default Re: subjunctive or not

    Philo: Some reference works even go so far as to classify it as a preposition but there is far from universal agreement on this.
    5jj: Good. I tried to find some, but couldn't. Could you tell me the names of one or two, please?

    (Far be it from me to direct people to sites offering, in my view, incorrect information, but) see Corum's earlier post.

  6. #26
    Pedroski is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: subjunctive or not

    I need help here: I cannot interpret 'come' as a prepo. What kind of prepo is it?

  7. #27
    corum is offline Banned
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    Default Re: subjunctive or not

    Quote Originally Posted by Pedroski View Post
    I need help here: I cannot interpret 'come' as a prepo. What kind of prepo is it?
    What kind of one-word prepos do you know of? How many types are there? What do you mean?

    http://www.usingenglish.com/forum/an...tml#post687147

  8. #28
    Pedroski is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: subjunctive or not

    I mean, I find the idea interesting, but its ramifications will lead to problems:

    Come in!
    Come here!
    Go West!
    Jump ship!
    Arrive London 2am.
    The same argument would make prepos of the verbs here.

    Also, if it were a prepo, you could use it in 'phrasal' type verbs: 'go in', 'put up', 'see through'. Can you find any examples of such use? 'go come'? Maybe: 'I will come', but no, that won't work.

  9. #29
    lauralie2 is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: subjunctive or not

    Quote Originally Posted by Pedroski View Post
    I need help here: I cannot interpret 'come' as a prepo. What kind of prepo is it?
    Perhaps focusing on the word 'March' rather than on the word 'come' might help bring things a little more into perspective.


    We know that:

    • two dictionaries (or is it three?) tell us that 'come' as a preposition is archaic in form,
    • that prepositions take nouns as their objects, and furthermore
    • that nouns occur in three positions syntactically: subject, object of a verb, and object of a preposition:

    Come March,...

    1. subject
    2. object of a verb
    3. object of a preposition

    Option 1. is out given word-order constraints. Option 2. and 3 are possible but at this stage yet to be determined.

    If 2. (the object of a verb), then expect an implied subject; i.e., archaic come (ye) March; Cf. mark (ye) my words. But would that be too much of a stretch?

    If 3. (the object of a preposition), then expect 'come' to gain its category via its position relative to the noun 'March' as we are constrained by the grammar to define it in any other way.

  10. #30
    corum is offline Banned
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    Default Re: subjunctive or not

    Quote Originally Posted by lauralie2 View Post
    Option 1. is out given word-order constraints.
    Is English strictly an SVO language, IYO?

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