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  1. #11
    birdeen's call is offline VIP Member
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    Default Re: "Let" imperative

    Quote Originally Posted by TheParser View Post
    (ii) let = an introductory particle/ modal auxiliary
    Hello, TheParser.

    Actually, that's the first thing I was asking about. Is it an introductory particle or a modal auxiliary? The Polish word is called a particle.

  2. #12
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    Johnson_F is offline Member
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    Default Re: "Let" imperative

    I've always used 'particle' as a cop-out to avoid deciding whether the non-verb thingies in phrasal/prepositional/multi-word/whatever verbs are prepositions or adverbs - and a very useful cop-out it is.

    I am not convinced that 'let' and/or 'let's' are in the same category.

    Yet.

  3. #13
    TheParser is offline Key Member
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    Default Re: "Let" imperative

    Quote Originally Posted by birdeen's call View Post
    Hello, TheParser.

    Actually, that's the first thing I was asking about. Is it an introductory particle or a modal auxiliary? The Polish word is called a particle.

    ***** NOT A TEACHER *****


    Birdeen's call,


    Apparently it depends on what book you choose to believe.

    American and British copyright laws are very strict, so I shall be

    as careful as possible in quoting them.

    *****


    Professor Quirk and colleagues write:

    This type of imperative, in which let is no more than

    an introductory particle [e.g., Let us/let's go], should be kept

    separate from the ordinary 2nd imperative of let as a

    transitive verb [Let us go. = Permit us to go].

    (By the way, Professor Quirk also says that let's is particle-like. He

    points out that Americans can say:

    Let's us ....

    Let's you ....

    Therefore, he concludes: In "let's," the 's NO LONGER is

    associated with us.)

    *****

    Professor Curme writes this:


    Instead of the simple form of the subjunctive [e.g., Climb we not

    too high] we now usually employ here the modern form with the

    UNSTRESSED [my emphasis] modal auxiliary let ( originally the

    STRESSED [my emphasis] imperative of the verb let = allow, permit)

    and a dependent infinitive.

    Professor Curme points out the difference in:

    Tom: There is a man at the door [who] wants to see you.

    Martha: Let him COME IN!/ LET him come in!

    THANK YOU

    P.S. I am guessing that "Let him COME IN!" was

    "Come he in" when the subjunctive was being used in the

    "old days."


  4. #14
    TheParser is offline Key Member
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    Default Re: "Let" imperative

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnson_F View Post
    I've always used 'particle' as a cop-out to avoid deciding whether the non-verb thingies in phrasal/prepositional/multi-word/whatever verbs are prepositions or adverbs - and a very useful cop-out it is.

    I am not convinced that 'let' and/or 'let's' are in the same category.

    Yet.

    Many of the professors whom I have cited agree with you

    that "let" and "let's" are not in the same category.

  5. #15
    Johnson_F's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Let" imperative

    Thanks for the information, Parser, I shall sleep on it.

    By the way, don't worry too much about infringing copyright laws in this sort of discussion. Provided you acknowledge your source (as you do), this type of citation is considered legitimate
    . If you want to make assurance double sure, cite the source in full:

    Quirk, Randolph, Greenbaum, Sidney, Leech, Geoffrey and Svartik, Jan (1985) A Comprehensive Grammar of the English Language, London: Longman
    Curme, George O. (1931) Syntax, Boston: Heath

  6. #16
    TheParser is offline Key Member
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    Default Re: "Let" imperative

    Quote Originally Posted by birdeen's call View Post
    This is an offshoot of another thread (subjunctive or not). I might be a good idea to post it on diagramming sentences forum but I know nothing about diagramming sentences...





    So here it is.

    ***** NOT A TEACHER *****


    Birdeen's Call,


    After carefully reading this thread, checking my books, and googling,

    perhaps I can offer some tentative conclusions about "Let

    him cast the first stone." (For easier analysis, I have deleted

    "who is without sin.")

    (1) The "correct" pronoun is "him."

    (2) Some people say "Let he .....

    (a) They feel in their gut that "he" is the subject of "cast"

    rather than the object of "let."

    (i) They may unconsciously be following older English.

    Quite possibly, older English would have stated it as:

    Cast he the first stone. (older subjunctive)

    (3) Many sources say that we can, indeed, consider in

    this kind of sentence that "let" is an auxiliary verb.

    (4) It is probably too simplified, but I remember reading

    somewhere that such a sentence could be diagrammed as:

    Him (subject) + let (auxiliary) + cast (infintive) + the first stone

    (object).

    Thank you for making all of us think about this matter.

    P.S. I plan to post a question in our wonderful diagramming

    forum.

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