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Thread: his joining us

  1. #1
    leo1985 is offline Newbie
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    Smile his joining us

    I would like to know what is the structure use in the following sentence:

    "Would you mind his joining us?"

    I have seen many sentences using the same strcuture and I still can not figure out what kind of structure this is, or how it works.

    I thought that the best structure to express meaning in the sentence above was as follows:

    "Would you mind if he joines us?"

    Thanks in advance for your guidance.

  2. #2
    TheParser is offline VIP Member
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    Re: his joining us

    Quote Originally Posted by leo1985 View Post
    I would like to know what is the structure use in the following sentence:

    "Would you mind his joining us?"

    I have seen many sentences using the same strcuture and I still can not figure out what kind of structure this is, or how it works.

    I thought that the best structure to express meaning in the sentence above was as follows:

    "Would you mind if he joines us?"

    Thanks in advance for your guidance.

    ***** NOT A TEACHER *****


    Leo,


    You have asked a wonderful question. Maybe the "correct"

    answer depends on which book or teacher you have.

    I should be happy to give you my opinion.

    I think that the following are "good" English:

    (1) Would you mind him joining us?

    (2) Would you mind his joining us?

    (3) Would you mind if he joins us?

    *****


    Let's discuss each one.

    (1) Would you mind him joining us. =

    The emphasis is on "him." Maybe you do not like "him."

    So you say, "Yes, I do mind. I do not like him. I do not want

    him to join us."

    (2) Would you mind his joining us? =

    The emphasis is on "joining." Maybe you like "him" very

    much, but --for some reason -- you do not think it is a

    good idea for him to join you and the others this time.

    NOTE: For some (many?) native speakers, sentences

    No. 1 and No. 2 are the same. So there is no way to know

    whether the idea in the speaker's mind is No. 1 or No. 2.

    For example, let's say that you do not like Tom. Then you

    would say to your daughter:

    I do not like him marrying you. (Emphasis on "him.")

    Now let's say that you like Tom and want him to marry your

    daughter. Let's say, however, that you do not want Tom and

    your daughter to get married so soon. You might say:

    I do not like his marrying you so soon. (In other words, the

    emphasis is on the "marrying.")

    (3) Would you mind if he joins us?

    The "problem" with No. 3 is that it could mean No. 1 or No. 2.

    So if you mean No.l, you would have to pronounce "he" very

    strongly:

    Do you mind if HE joins us? (Emphasis on "he.")

    You might answer: Yes, I really do mind if HE joins us. I dislike him!!!

    If you mean the idea of sentence No. 2, then you would pronounce the

    words normally with a little extra pronunciation on two words:

    Would you MIND if he JOINS us? (Emphasis on "joins")

    Remember: maybe you like him, but -- for some reason -- you might

    answer: Oh, I think that it might better if he doesn't join us this time.


    THANK YOU & HAVE A NICE DAY

    P.S. Remember that many (most?) native speakers might consider

    all three about the same. Some books, however, feel that "careful"

    speakers will use either sentence No. l or No. 2 depending on what

    idea you wish to express. And, of course, sentence No. 3 is fine

    except that some people feel it is ambiguous (not clear what you wish

    to say exactly).

    P.P.S. I do not know how much English grammar you have already

    studied, but some books say:

    In "him joining," joining is a participle.

    In "his joining," joining is a gerund.

  3. #3
    Allen165 is offline Key Member
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    Re: his joining us

    Quote Originally Posted by TheParser View Post
    ***** NOT A TEACHER *****


    Leo,


    You have asked a wonderful question. Maybe the "correct"

    answer depends on which book or teacher you have.

    I should be happy to give you my opinion.

    I think that the following are "good" English:

    (1) Would you mind him joining us?

    (2) Would you mind his joining us?

    (3) Would you mind if he joins us?

    *****


    Let's discuss each one.

    (1) Would you mind him joining us. =

    The emphasis is on "him." Maybe you do not like "him."

    So you say, "Yes, I do mind. I do not like him. I do not want

    him to join us."

    (2) Would you mind his joining us? =

    The emphasis is on "joining." Maybe you like "him" very

    much, but --for some reason -- you do not think it is a

    good idea for him to join you and the others this time.

    NOTE: For some (many?) native speakers, sentences

    No. 1 and No. 2 are the same. So there is no way to know

    whether the idea in the speaker's mind is No. 1 or No. 2.

    For example, let's say that you do not like Tom. Then you

    would say to your daughter:

    I do not like him marrying you. (Emphasis on "him.")

    Now let's say that you like Tom and want him to marry your

    daughter. Let's say, however, that you do not want Tom and

    your daughter to get married so soon. You might say:

    I do not like his marrying you so soon. (In other words, the

    emphasis is on the "marrying.")

    (3) Would you mind if he joins us?

    The "problem" with No. 3 is that it could mean No. 1 or No. 2.

    So if you mean No.l, you would have to pronounce "he" very

    strongly:

    Do you mind if HE joins us? (Emphasis on "he.")

    You might answer: Yes, I really do mind if HE joins us. I dislike him!!!

    If you mean the idea of sentence No. 2, then you would pronounce the

    words normally with a little extra pronunciation on two words:

    Would you MIND if he JOINS us? (Emphasis on "joins")

    Remember: maybe you like him, but -- for some reason -- you might

    answer: Oh, I think that it might better if he doesn't join us this time.


    THANK YOU & HAVE A NICE DAY

    P.S. Remember that many (most?) native speakers might consider

    all three about the same. Some books, however, feel that "careful"

    speakers will use either sentence No. l or No. 2 depending on what

    idea you wish to express. And, of course, sentence No. 3 is fine

    except that some people feel it is ambiguous (not clear what you wish

    to say exactly).

    P.P.S. I do not know how much English grammar you have already

    studied, but some books say:

    In "him joining," joining is a participle.

    In "his joining," joining is a gerund.
    Interesting. I was under the impression that "Would you mind him joining us" would be ungrammatical. Using "him" instead of "his" in such constructions is certainly more common, but I really thought that in a formal context "him" would be wrong.

  4. #4
    TheParser is offline VIP Member
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    Re: his joining us

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasmin165 View Post
    Interesting. I was under the impression that "Would you mind him joining us" would be ungrammatical. Using "him" instead of "his" in such constructions is certainly more common, but I really thought that in a formal context "him" would be wrong.

    ***** NOT A TEACHER *****


    Jasmin,


    Thank you for your kind note.

    (1) Hopefully, a teacher will soon answer you.

    (2) As for me, I choose to accept what Professors House and

    Harman teach in their Descriptive English Grammar (Englewood

    Cliffs, N.J.: Prentice-Hall, 1950).

    Since I have given credit, I assume that I may safely give a short

    quotation:


    One of the chief reasons for retaining the possessive case form

    is that it prevents confusion with the participle. . . . In I do not

    approve of that man coming with Mary, disapproval of the man is

    indicated; but if the possessive man's is used , it is the coming of

    the man which is not approved. In sentences such as this, it is

    important to choose the form which will convey CLEARLY [my

    emphasis] the intended meaning.


    Thank you & Happy New Year

  5. #5
    leo1985 is offline Newbie
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    Re: his joining us

    Thank you so much. This is really helpful; now everything is clear!!

  6. #6
    corum is offline Banned
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    Re: his joining us

    Would you mind him joining us?
    Would you mind him joining us?


    Would you mind his joining us?
    Would you mind his joining us?

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