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  1. #1
    speed011ttl is offline Newbie
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    Smile Which is a grammatical sentence?

    Which is a grammatical sentence?

    (If the object 'him' has the subejct as an antecedent )

    1)John took good memories with him.

    2)John took good memories with himself.

    \/ plz! give me any help!!
    I am dying to know!!

  2. #2
    lauralie2 is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Which is a grammatical sentence?

    1)John took good memories with him.
    2)John took good memories with himself.

    The second one is problematic because the phrase with himself is added information, and as such is outside of and not connected to the verb's arguments (Cf., John painted a portrait of himself, John painted a self-portrait).

  3. #3
    speed011ttl is offline Newbie
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    Default Re: Which is a grammatical sentence?

    Quote Originally Posted by lauralie2 View Post
    1)John took good memories with him.
    2)John took good memories with himself.

    The second one is problematic because the phrase with himself is added information, and as such is outside of and not connected to the verb's arguments (Cf., John painted a portrait of himself, John painted a self-portrait).


    Before saying something, i'm exalted by your warm advice.
    As I am a studuent who has learned 'Binding Theory made by Chomsky(1981) or Reimsdijk Williams (1986), in my personal opinion, I have another opinion about it.

    No matter what the phrase 'with them' is (e.g., adjunts or not arguments of a verb), the posted sentence satisfies the rules
    therefore, I adhere to it.
    Of course, I am considering the fact the rule is not perfect from such examples (the phrases "He likes a picture of himself", " Marlowe resented the book about himsel")


    **About using Anaphor**
    Chomsky(1981)
    A c-commands B, A and B are coindexed,

    Reimsdijk Williams (1986)
    A is the govening category for B if and if A is the minimal category(NP, or S) containing B, a governor B, and a SUBJECT accessible to B (SUBJECT = subject or AGR)

  4. #4
    lauralie2 is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Which is a grammatical sentence?

    Quote Originally Posted by speed011ttl View Post
    I have another opinion about it.

    No matter what the phrase 'with them' is (e.g., adjun[c]ts or not arguments of a verb), the posted sentence satisfies the rules therefore, I adhere to it.
    It doesn't satisfy the rule. B is not contained here:

    [John took good memories] with himself.

    Reimsdijk Williams (1986) A is the gove[r]ning category for B if and if A is the minimal category(NP, or S) containing B, a governor B, and a SUBJECT accessible to B (SUBJECT = subject or AGR)

  5. #5
    speed011ttl is offline Newbie
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    Default Re: Which is a grammatical sentence?

    Quote Originally Posted by lauralie2 View Post
    It doesn't satisfy the rule. B is not contained here:
    [John took good memories] with himself.

    Reimsdijk Williams (1986) A is the gove[r]ning category for B if and if A is the minimal category(NP, or S) containing B, a governor B, and a SUBJECT accessible to B (SUBJECT = subject or AGR)


    I really appreciatie it. It's lucky to meet you!!
    But, the explanation of the sentence He...tried to resolve the conflicts (that were) within himself is ungrammatical from my point of view since the reflexive himself doesn't have its antecedent within NP or S by abiding by the rule I mentioned.

    [S Marlowe resented the book s'[(that was) written about himself]]
    Zooming-in the relative clause s'[that were within himself]
    as compared wiith the sentences John(1) believes that Jane loves him(2)
    (1) = (2)

    Nobody(3) who knew him(4) would ride with Fred.
    (3) and (4) is not equal.

    Moreover, I think that the sentence "He took good memories with himself"
    ---> s[He v''[V'[took N''[N'[N[good memories]]]] with himself]]]

    Following your argument, "at each other" in the sentence "The men will shoot the arrows at each other" is out of S sphere because its function is adjunct I guess ( I don't know What it really is....PLZ understanding I have different mother tongue.

    While I am talking with you, I am knowing more and more the fact that there is no sentences I insisted in searching google site and the world. My real intention is the desire in a student to learn more.
    Plz help me!!
    Last edited by speed011ttl; 24-Dec-2010 at 08:12.

  6. #6
    lauralie2 is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Which is a grammatical sentence?

    Quote Originally Posted by speed011ttl View Post
    I really appreciatie it. It's lucky to meet you!!
    But, the explanation of the sentence He...tried to resolve the conflicts (that were) within himself is ungrammatical from my point of view since the reflexive himself doesn't have its antecedent within NP or S by abiding by the rule I mentioned.

    [S Marlowe resented the book s'[(that was) written about himself]]
    Zooming-in the relative clause s'[that were within himself]
    as compared wiith the sentences John(1) believes that Jane loves him(2)
    (1) = (2)

    Nobody(3) who knew him(4) would ride with Fred.
    (3) and (4) is not equal.

    Moreover, I think that the sentence "He took good memories with himself"
    ---> s[He v''[V'[took N''[N'[N[good memories]]]] with himself]]]

    Following your argument, "at each other" in the sentence "The men will shoot the arrows at each other" is out of S sphere because its function is adjunct I guess ( I don't know What it really is....PLZ understanding I have different mother tongue.

    While I am talking with you, I am knowing more and more the fact that there is no sentences I insisted in searching google site and the world. My real intention is the desire in a student to learn more.
    Plz help me!!
    You're running two threads on this topic, and giving identical replies. Please see your other thread for my current reply.

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