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  1. #1
    keannu's Avatar
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    Default past perfect or a specific time past perfect?

    I have the below example, but it's confusing whether it is a normal past perfect or a specific time past perfect.

    1. My uncle sent me an MP3 player that he had bought in Tokyo.

    In Korea, the past perfect that happend prior to a past with no relationship is called "plueperfect". This is kind of different from 2 as 2 implies the past perfect is related (affecting the past) to the past.

    2. I had lost my bag when I left the train.

    1 is kind vague as it can be interpreted in two ways.
    a. He had bought an MP3 player before he sent it to me, but his buying action may have not affected until he sent it to me.
    b. He had bought it, but his purchased status still affected until he sent it to me.

    Do they differentiate this kind of affecting or inaffecting past perfect or not? I'm really curious.
    Thank you in advance!

  2. #2
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    Default Re: past perfect or a specific time past perfect?

    Quote Originally Posted by keannu View Post
    I have the below example, but it's confusing whether it is a normal past perfect or a specific time past perfect.

    1. My uncle sent me an MP3 player that he had bought in Tokyo.

    In Korea, the past perfect that happend prior to a past with no relationship is called "plueperfect". This is kind of different from 2 as 2 implies the past perfect is related (affecting the past) to the past.

    2. I had lost my bag when I left the train.

    1 is kind of vague as it can be interpreted in two ways.
    a. He had bought an MP3 player before he sent it to me, but his buying action may have not affected until he sent it to me.
    b. He had bought it, but his purchased status still affected until he sent it to me.

    Do they differentiate this kind of affecting or inaffecting past perfect or not?
    I am not really sure what you mean by the words I have highlighted in blue.

    #1 tells us that the purchase took place before the sending.
    #2 tells us that I was bag-less when I left the train. The loss took place before the leaving.

    Any other implications can be made clear only with more context.

  3. #3
    keannu's Avatar
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    Default Re: past perfect or a specific time past perfect?

    Okay, first of all, I really appreciate your getting back to me. I thought u abandoned me due to the headaches I've given you..hehe..

    I think you know the difference between the next two.

    1a.I lost my bag.(simple past)
    2a.I have lost my bag.(present perfect)

    If these two are transferred to the past, we can say like this.
    1b. I had lost my bag before I came to school.(from 1a)
    2b. I had lost my bag when I came to school.(from 2a)

    I think 1b assumes I don't know if I still had the bag when I came to school, but 2b assumes I still didn't have the bag when I came to school
    as 1b is a past perfect with no relevance to the past, and 2b is a normal past perfect related to the past.

    c. My uncle sent me an MP3 player that he had bought in Tokyo.

    My question back in the original one is "it is hard to determine if c is like 1b or 2b." For 1b type, does it always have to be like "an event and(before or after) an event"?
    C logically means he must have it at the time of sending it, so I think c is like 2b, but some cases look kind of vague.

  4. #4
    bhaisahab's Avatar
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    Default Re: past perfect or a specific time past perfect?

    [QUOTE=keannu;707179]

    1a.I lost my bag.(simple past)
    2a.I have lost my bag.(present perfect)

    If these two are transferred to the past, we can say like this.
    1b. I had lost my bag before I came to school.(from 1a)
    2b. I had lost my bag when I came to school.(from 2a)

    I think 1b assumes I don't know if I still had the bag when I came to school QUOTE] No, you had lost your bag before you came to school, when you arrived at school you knew you had lost it.

  5. #5
    5jj's Avatar
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    Default Re: past perfect or a specific time past perfect?

    The form 'had + past participle' functions in English as both a past perfect, the name by which it is generally known, and a 'past past'.

    Without context, it is impossible to know which it is. Even with context, there is usually no significant difference, for native speakers.

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