New York City / Mexico City

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milan2003_07

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Hi,

The administrative center of the New York state is called New York City. The capital of Mexico is called Mexico City. Why is the word "City" used in both cases? Is it done in order not to confuse the name of the state and country, respectively, with the names of the cities? In what other cases is the word "City" used in addition to a city's name?

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SoothingDave

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Yes, it's to distinguish New York City from New York State (or even New York County).

In the case of New York, the actual name of the city does not contain the word "city," but people use it to avoid confusion. You can talk about New York and do not have to always add "city."

In other cases, like Oklahoma City, the word "city" is part of the name. You would not just say "Oklahoma," to talk about that city. Carson City in Nevada is another example of cities that formally have "city" in their names.

(Interestingly enough, Mexicans refer to what we call "Mexico City" as just "Mexico." So you can be in the country of Mexico and see road signs directing you how to get to "Mexico.")
 

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Oh, and New York city is not the capital of New York state. Albany is. So NYC is a center of many things in the country and the world, but it is not the administrative center of New York state.
 

milan2003_07

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Thanks for your reply. I know that New York can be used without "City", but the latter is often done to avoid what we call confusion. I also think that when you say you're going to New York most people will understand that you're going to New York City.

I didn't know that sometimes the word "City" is compulsory like in the examples you've provided. By the way after reading your post the name "Salt Lake City" came to me because the Olympic Games of 2002 were held there.

Are there any other cities located outside the USA, except for Mexico City, which use the word "City" as an optional or compulsory part of the whole name?

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Durham, the county town of County Durham in England, is sometimes called Durham City.
 

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i can't think of any off the top of my head. There are cities in Mexico that are named "Ciudad Juarez," for example.
 

milan2003_07

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Durham, the county town of County Durham in England, is sometimes called Durham City.

So it turns out that the word "City" is always used when the name of a city coincides with that of a bigger unit - a country, a country, a state, etc.

Are there situations when we use "Town" instead of "City" for the same purpose when speaking about a smaller place than city? As we all know cities are always bigger than towns or at least they have to be so.
 

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As we all know cities are always bigger than towns.. . .

I'm afraid that's not true, Milan.

Everglades City, USA, is a dot on the map of Florida, with a population of 500 (yes - 500).

In the UK the city of St David's has 18,000 inhabitants whilst the town of Reading has 240,000.

Rover
 
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milan2003_07

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I'm afraid that's not true, Milan.

Everglades City, USA, is a dot on the map of Florida, with a population of 500 (yes - 500).

In the UK the city of St David's has 18,000 inhabitants whilst the town of Blackburn has 105,000.

Rover

To tell the truth this is very strange. I was taught and I suppose most people will agree that cities are normally bigger than towns. Of course we usually measure the size by area, but the population also indicates to us if a city is big or not. Only in Africa, I think, and probably in India and China very many people can reside on a small territory. In all other cases when a city is densely populated it is really big. London, Paris, Madrid, New York, Moscow, Buenos-Aires, etc. These are all cities.

So I can't understand how can a smaller place be called "city" and a bigger one - "town". How can you, natives, explain the logic behid this?

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There is no logic. :-D

You are right that, in general what one would call a "town" is smaller than what one would call a "city." But that's only in general.

In my experience in the US, a "city" is a legal entity. A town is not. A township is. A borough is. A village isn't.
 

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I went to high school in a place called Harrison City, but it is not even a "city" in the legal sense of the word. It is a village in a township. Local government was by the township.
 

milan2003_07

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There is no logic. :-D

You are right that, in general what one would call a "town" is smaller than what one would call a "city." But that's only in general.

In my experience in the US, a "city" is a legal entity. A town is not. A township is. A borough is. A village isn't.

But how can it happen that a city's population proves to be smaller than a town's one? Or maybe the status of the town was awarded when the population was small and when it had increased this status wasn't changed? Otherwise it's hard to understand what's the difference between "city" and "town" in practice.

By the way in Russian we have only word to speak about both a city and a town. This noun doesn't at all distinguish between the two. However this doesn't prevent us understanding whether we're speaking about a small or a big place. Of course specification is needed, but still there exists only one word for both types of residential areas. :)
 

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What I am saying is that in the US "town" has no legal definition. It has no population.

My home state is divided into counties. Each county is further divided into cities, townships and boroughs.

Your local government, the organization that runs your police and writes laws is either a township, a borough or a city. Nobody lives in a "town." The word is used to describe settlements of various sizes. Places have "downtown" areas. A person might say they live "two towns over."

But as far as government goes there are no "towns."

Townships are large in area and tend to be less populous. As settlements grow in townships, they can become self-governing apart from their originating township. They usually become boroughs. If they continue to grow they may become legally cities.

That is the legal definition.

Now in the use of language any type of settlement may become known as Carson City or Cape Town. I could say I was going into town to see a football game. Or I could say I was going to the city.

But in general, one thinks of a town as smaller than a city. But names are names. They do stick to areas early on in their development.

So my advice is to not get to worried about the names places have. If a large place has "town" in its name, or a small place "city" don't fret. This is natural.
 

milan2003_07

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That's interesting, but I wonder if it's the same in England.
 

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I'm sure it's not. ;-)
 

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That's interesting, but I wonder if it's the same in England.
In the United Kingdom (UK), a city is a town which has been known as a city since time immemorial or which has received city status by letters patent—which are normally granted on the basis of: Population (>300,000), metropolitan character, governance, importance and / or a Royal connection. Prior to 1907 the criteria was simply the establishment of a new Anglican Cathedral.

From: City - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

SoothingDave

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Certainly that is how "townships" were laid out during the initial westward expansion (into Ohio, for example). But my home state of PA has townships that are in no way square or regular.

Many other states are governed locally by county government directly in any "unincorporated" areas.
 
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