Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 12
  1. #1
    musicgold is offline Senior Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Student or Learner
      • Native Language:
      • Swahili
      • Home Country:
      • Congo
      • Current Location:
      • Australia
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    547
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Sentences Feb 11

    Hi,

    Are the following sentences natural to a native ear?

    1. Let me draw a diagram which might help you remember it.

    2. At this point the biggest danger of failure to this treaty is non conformance by both sides.

    3. There were two news that came earlier today.

    Thanks,

    MG.

  2. #2
    apex2000's Avatar
    apex2000 is offline Senior Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Other
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • UK
      • Current Location:
      • Wales
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    785
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Sentences Feb 11

    1. OK
    2. At this point the biggest danger to the failure of this treaty is non conformance by both sides.
    3. You cannot say 'two news'; two sets of news; two newspapers.

  3. #3
    Raymott's Avatar
    Raymott is offline VIP Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Academic
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • Australia
      • Current Location:
      • Australia
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    19,659
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Sentences Feb 11

    Quote Originally Posted by apex2000 View Post
    2. At this point the biggest danger to the failure of this treaty is non conformance by both sides.
    Doesn't the sentence mean "the biggest danger to the success of this treaty"?

  4. #4
    apex2000's Avatar
    apex2000 is offline Senior Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Other
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • UK
      • Current Location:
      • Wales
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    785
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Sentences Feb 11

    Success? If we take a broad view of many treaties and how the UN in particular 'works' then they are considered to be successful as long as no state deliberately breaks them. But they are not successful as we all know because initial agreement is followed by little or no action. There is a huge gulf between success and failure.

  5. #5
    Raymott's Avatar
    Raymott is offline VIP Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Academic
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • Australia
      • Current Location:
      • Australia
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    19,659
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Sentences Feb 11

    Quote Originally Posted by apex2000 View Post
    Success? If we take a broad view of many treaties and how the UN in particular 'works' then they are considered to be successful as long as no state deliberately breaks them. But they are not successful as we all know because initial agreement is followed by little or no action. There is a huge gulf between success and failure.
    I'm not talking about the practical problems of the UN. I'm talking about the meaning of the sentence.
    The original sentence:
    2. At this point the biggest danger of failure to this treaty is non conformance by both sides. is supposed to mean: Non-conformance is the biggest danger to success (the biggest potential cause of failure).
    Your sentence means that non-conformance is the biggest potential cause of success - the biggest danger to failure.

  6. #6
    apex2000's Avatar
    apex2000 is offline Senior Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Other
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • UK
      • Current Location:
      • Wales
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    785
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Sentences Feb 11

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymott View Post
    I'm not talking about the practical problems of the UN. I'm talking about the meaning of the sentence.
    The original sentence:
    2. At this point the biggest danger of failure to this treaty is non conformance by both sides. is supposed to mean: Non-conformance is the biggest danger to success (the biggest potential cause of failure).
    Your sentence means that non-conformance is the biggest potential cause of success - the biggest danger to failure.
    You have misquoted me. I said 'to the failure' not 'of failure'. I should have said 'of this treaty failing' which makes it much clearer.
    I apologise to musicgold for not doing that.

  7. #7
    Raymott's Avatar
    Raymott is offline VIP Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Academic
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • Australia
      • Current Location:
      • Australia
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    19,659
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Sentences Feb 11

    Quote Originally Posted by apex2000 View Post
    You have misquoted me. I said 'to the failure' not 'of failure'. I should have said 'of this treaty failing' which makes it much clearer.
    I apologise to musicgold for not doing that.
    No, I have not misquoted you. If you want to make accusations like this to cover your own mistakes, you should try to make sure you can back them up.
    I have paraphrased what your sentence meant. 'Of this treaty failing' doesn't "make it clearer"; it reverses the meaning of the sentence.
    Last edited by Raymott; 14-Feb-2011 at 10:30.

  8. #8
    Khosro's Avatar
    Khosro is offline Senior Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Interested in Language
      • Native Language:
      • Persian
      • Home Country:
      • Iran
      • Current Location:
      • Iran
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    530
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Sentences Feb 11

    [QUOTE=Raymott;714121]2. At this point the biggest danger of failure to this treaty is non conformance by both sides. is supposed to mean: Non-conformance is the biggest danger to success QUOTE]

    If Musicgold's sentence supposed to mean this, which I think it does, then both suggestions of apex sound wrong to me.

  9. #9
    Coolfootluke is offline Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Other
      • Native Language:
      • American English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    434
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Sentences Feb 11

    Quote Originally Posted by musicgold View Post
    Hi,

    Are the following sentences natural to a native ear?

    1. Let me draw a diagram which might help you remember it.

    2. At this point the biggest danger of failure to this treaty is non conformance by both sides.

    3. There were two news that came earlier today.

    Thanks,

    MG.
    I am not a teacher.

    1. To my ear (Middle Atlantic, USA), "which" should be "that", but many people around here would disagree with me. The sentence is good English.

    2. This sentence is fine, except I would expect "non-conformance". There is danger "to" things, and "of failure" is nothing more than an adjective modifying "danger". I see nothing remarkable in the grammar or idiom of this sentence.

    3. "News" is uncountable. It would have to be something like, "There were two bits of news that came earlier today."

  10. #10
    apex2000's Avatar
    apex2000 is offline Senior Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Other
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • UK
      • Current Location:
      • Wales
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    785
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Sentences Feb 11

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymott View Post
    No, I have not misquoted you. If you want to make accusations like this to cover your own mistakes, you should try to make sure you can back them up.
    I have paraphrased what your sentence meant. 'Of this treaty failing' doesn't "make it clearer"; it reverses the meaning of the sentence.
    You are quite correct; you did not misquote me. I made a mistake about which sentence was which and that is entirely my fault. I apologise, unreservedly.

    Furthermore I should have taken the time to explain in more detail my approach to the failure of a treaty. A treaty may fail for any number of reasons; but success has to be absolute. The question was about the greatest danger of failure. Once a treaty has been signed/completed then the greatest danger would be if neither side implemented it.
    I see what you meant. However I cannot agree that I have turned the original sentence around by replacing 'at this point the biggest danger of failure to this treaty is non conformance by both sides' with 'at this point the biggest danger of this treaty failing is non conformance by both sides'.

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Sentences Feb 7
    By musicgold in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 07-Feb-2011, 17:46
  2. Sentences Feb 3
    By musicgold in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 04-Feb-2011, 04:22
  3. [Grammar] My birthday is on Feb.24th
    By Unregistered in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 18-Mar-2010, 02:51
  4. What are loose sentences? Periodic sentences?
    By RonBee in forum General Language Discussions
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 01-Dec-2003, 00:13

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •