View Poll Results: ..... it was expensive, they still bought it.

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4937. This poll is closed
  • However

    778 15.76%
  • Although

    4,159 84.24%
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  1. #1
    Tdol is offline Editor, UsingEnglish.com
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    Default Although or However?

    Why?

  2. #2
    RonBee's Avatar
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  3. #3
    Anonymous Guest

    Default Re: Although or However?

    Quote Originally Posted by tdol
    Why?
    Synonyns in this position:

    They still bought it, although, it was expensive.
    They still bought it, however, it was expensive.

    Synonyns in this position:

    It was expensive. They still bought it, (al)though.
    It was expensive. They still bought it, however.

    Although it was expensive, they still bought it.
    However it was expensive, they still bought it. ungrammy

    Why
    Math

    Within a given sentence, the word 'although' can modify A or B

    [although A] + B
    A + [B although]

    Within a given sentence, the word 'however' can modify B
    A + [however + B]
    A + [B however]

    Hypothesis: Both 'although' and 'however' function as conjunctions, but 'however' functions in a way similar to that of a pronoun: it needs a referent. Placing 'however' before its referent produces a result kind of like:

    ? He's the guy I told you about, John. semantics

    wherein the intended meaning is 'He' and 'John' are the same person (co-referent), but the order of the pronouns tells us that 'He' and 'John' are not the same person. The reason being that pronouns need their referents to come before them, so as they have something to anchor to, to refer to.

    In that 'He' to refer to 'John', we need to place 'John' before
    'He':

    John Smith is his name. He's the guy I told you about.

    It's that kind of distribution, I believe, that makes 'however' similar to a pronoun. That is, "However it was expensive, they still bought it" is ungrammy 'cause 'however' needs to come after A and before B:

    A + [however + B] (wherein "A" is a referential sentence)

    It's the order, not the semantics, per se, that's important.

    In short, 'however' needs a referent. 'although' doesn't.

  4. #4
    Patrick87 is offline Newbie
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    Default Re: Although or However?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
    Synonyns in this position:

    They still bought it, although, it was expensive.
    They still bought it, however, it was expensive.
    I think the comma in the first sentence after although is incorrect. I would write "They still bought it, although it was expensive."

  5. #5
    Tdol is offline Editor, UsingEnglish.com
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    Default Re: Although or However?

    What makes you think it's wrong?

  6. #6
    Patrick87 is offline Newbie
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    Default Re: Although or However?

    Well, I would not use it, because although is introcuding a subordinate clause and you don't make a pause after although.

  7. #7
    Tdol is offline Editor, UsingEnglish.com
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    Default Re: Although or However?

    Sorry- I missed the comma in the part you quoted. I get your point and agree with you. Sorry for being a bit slow on the uptake. ;--)

  8. #8
    Anonymous Guest

    Default Re: Although or However?

    I dunno why it posted me as 'guest'.

    There's a typo:

    synonyns [sic] should read as synonyms. Is that right? It's like 4 am here and me eyes are falling out.

    By the way, since I be a guest, could I get some extra hand towels :D

    Cas

  9. #9
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    Default

    Yes, it should be synonyms. Also, I don't think you can use altogether and however synonymously.

    :)

  10. #10
    Tdol is offline Editor, UsingEnglish.com
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    Default

    Synonyns in this position:

    They still bought it, although, it was expensive.
    They still bought it, however, it was expensive.

    They're not synonymous here to me. The second doesn't work, IMO, and I'd delete the second comma in the first.

    Synonyns in this position:

    It was expensive. They still bought it, (al)though.
    It was expensive. They still bought it, however.

    These wok, although I'd say that 'though' is the form to use in the first.

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