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I have to ask - who decided that one was /ʧ/ and the other devoiced /ʤ/?
Last edited by birdeen's call; 06-Mar-2011 at 10:36. Reason: typo
No. As I learned, both /ʤ/ and /ʧ/ differ in other aspects besides voicing, which include but are not limited to :What's the difference between /ʧ/ and devoiced /ʤ/? Do you mean that devoiced is more voiced than voiceless?
- higher/lower amplitude of burst or frication
- length of the constriction duration
- length of the preceding vowel.
A devoiced /ʤ/ is shorter and less loud than a /ʧ/.
If you really pay attention, you can hear that in the samples I provided in an earlier post.
The first one is a devoiced /ʤ/, the second a /ʧ/.
No, there is a real difference and some native speakers I asked can hear it right away, others can't.So the only difference is in perception, not in real sounds?
I'm saying, or rather asking, if such full devoicing occurs in normal speech; and if native speakers are maybe unaware of that and hear voicing although it's not there. Because sometimes I just can't hear voicing where one's supposed to be.I'm asking these questions, because I'm not sure what the OP is saying.
 http://www.ualberta.ca/~tnearey/Ling205/Week3/WBPhonemesAndAllophonesEngCs4Up.pdf -- page 8