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  1. #11
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    Default Re: Is the present still "perfect" even when people have grown old?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hucky View Post
    It keeps dawning upon me! Your replies are the stuff not to be found in any grammar book - what makes them so valuable!
    The downside is that we are likely to correct even a friendly letter. So, thanks for your message, but:

    1. If something dawns on you, you begin to realise it for the first time, so things don't normally 'keep dawning' on you. The dawning can be slow; you could have said: It has been slowly dawning on me.

    2. What makes your replies so valuable is that they...
    Your replies are [...] grammar book - which makes them so valuable!
    Your replies are [...] grammar book - which is what makes them so valuable!

    Best wishes.

  2. #12
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    Default Re: Is the present still "perfect" even when people have grown old?

    Dear Tdol and fivejedjon,

    In spite of constant refining, the rules will lag behind. But we are trying hard to fill the gap. My humble self - by way of making your head spin, you, the UE members (UE members may stand for you excellent members - I reckon), the fine refiners - by putting the record straight. Off we go! Letīs tackle the challenge!

    Your co-tackler

    Hucky

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Is the present still "perfect" even when people have grown old?

    Dear fivejedjon,

    When I wrote my lines to you last night, I didnīt realize that there had already been a message from you on the second page. Itīs not just that Iīm sorry for not having thanked you for it, but it struck me with surprise. Everything comes to him who waits. To be frank, Iīve been wanting to ask you - if you please - to correct mistakes having slippped in my mails. Itīs just that we learn by mistakes. If there is no competent native speaker around who makes you aware of what is wrong or sounds awkward, we will keep the mistakes in mind, not even getting aware of them. The reason why I refrained from doing so was just that I was afraid it could be (mis-)understood as being impertinent. So if it doesnīt turn out to be a life timeīs work, you are welcome to give me linguistic pieces of advice, nay, you would do me a favour. But only if you feel like it. Of course, I also welcome and even encourage all the other native speakers to do so. Thus, correcting me is anything but a downside - as you put it -, contrary, I would appreciate it very much. You may take it from me! We live and learn!

    Looking forward to receiving tips to conquer ignorance, I remain for the time being with best thanks in advance.

    Hucky

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Is the present still "perfect" even when people have grown old?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hucky View Post
    To be frank The use of 'to be frank' here is not entirely natural. We tend to use that if we are about to say something that we think might possibly be too direct for the listener/reader.

    Iīve been wanting to ask you - if you please - to correct mistakes having which/that have slipped into my mails. Itīs just that we learn by mistakes. If there is no competent native speaker around who makes (that's not wrong, but 'to make' is perhaps more natural)... you aware of what is wrong or sounds awkward, we will keep the mistakes in mind, not even getting aware of them without even being aware of them.

    The reason why I refrained from doing so was just that I was afraid it could be (mis-)understood as being impertinent. Not at all. That's one of the many things this forum is for.

    So if it doesnīt turn out to be a life-timeīs work, you are welcome to give me linguistic pieces of advice, nay, you would do me a favour. But only if you feel like it. Don't worry - if we haven't the time or nclination, we simply don't respond. Of course, I also welcome and even encourage all the other native speakers to do so. Thus, correcting me is anything but a downside - as you put it -, on/to the contrary, I would appreciate it very much. You may take it from me! We live and learn!
    I suggest that you don't address posts in the public thread to individual members. This may discourage others from responding, and they may well have better ideas than the person you have addressed.

  5. #15
    Hucky is offline Member
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    Default Re: Is the present still "perfect" even when people have grown old?

    Hi there everybody,

    I quoted the following example (1) before. You might remember that I asked you why the present perfect is used here although the author refers to a previous page of his discourse (thus to the past). I accepted your convincing argument as to which the author wants to emphasize the fact that what he said before is still true.

    1) I have said that it is not primarily ...



    In the meantime, however, I kept on reading. In doing so, I have come across a similar sentence (2) by the same authour in the same book, this time in the past simple.

    2) I said above that ...

    Can anyone account for this apparent discrepancy?

    What is more, I spotted an even more astounding sentence there (3). This is a clear-cut case of reference to the past, but what do we encounter here? - The present perfect? Isnīt this bewildering?

    3) Long before history began we men have got
    together ...


    Iīm really curious to see how youīll unravel this mystery?


    Hucky


  6. #16
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    Default Re: Is the present still "perfect" even when people have grown old?

    Quote Originally Posted by fivejedjon View Post
    I suggest that you don't address posts in the public thread to individual members. This may discourage others from responding, and they may well have better ideas than the person you have addressed.
    This is not what I was driving at, but you seem to be right. You see, we live and learn not just as far as language is concerned.

  7. #17
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    Default Re: Is the present still "perfect" even when people have grown old?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hucky View Post
    I accepted [...] 1) I have said that it is not primarily ...

    In the meantime, however, I kept on reading. In doing so, I have come across a similar sentence (2) by the same author in the same book, this time in the past simple.

    2) I said above that ...

    Can anyone account for this apparent discrepancy?

    There is no law saying we have to be consistent (note the words of yours that I (have) underlined). We could argue that in #1 the speaker is presenting his previously-uttered words as a universal truth, and that in #2 he is thinking of the time he actually said (wrote) the words. Speakers usually make the (subconscious) choice of tense/aspects at the moment of speaking. They don't often think back to a tense they used five minutes (or five pages) ago. [...]

    3) Long before history began we men have got together ...

    Iīm really curious to see how youīll unravel this mystery?
    I can't. The writer wrote something that most of us would not normally write. Pobody's nerfect.
    5

  8. #18
    Hucky is offline Member
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    Default Re: Is the present still "perfect" even when people have grown old?

    Quote Originally Posted by fivejedjon View Post
    5
    I can follow your line of reasoning. Thatīs certainly the answer to the question. There is no other way to account for it.

    Thanks

    Hucky

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