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  1. #1
    NaVaS is offline Newbie
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    Why "judge" /dʒʌdʒ/ becomes /dʒʌtʃ/ not /dʒɑːdʒ/? /

    Hello everyone.

    A fortis (unvoiced) consonant appears after a short vowel and a lenis (voiced) consonant appears after a long vowel.
    In fact, the "a" sound in rag and rack is different. Watch the video: youtube.com/watch?v=o_GHV6RTy9c

    So, why not change the vowel rather than the consonant?

  2. #2
    BobK's Avatar
    BobK is offline Harmless drudge
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    Re: Why "judge" /dʒʌdʒ/ becomes /dʒʌtʃ/ not /dʒɑːdʒ/? /

    I don't understand the question. What happens is what happens. No one thinks 'I know, I'll change the vowel length'; if they did, it wouldn't be what we call 'language'.

    b

  3. #3
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    BobK is offline Harmless drudge
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    Re: Why "judge" /dʒʌdʒ/ becomes /dʒʌtʃ/ not /dʒɑːdʒ/? /

    PS Read up about the difference between an Allophone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and Phoneme - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. 'Rag' and 'rack' both have the // phoneme though the allophones are distinct; so your /ʤʌʤ/ vs /ʤa:ʤ/ is not good. You need to compare words in which the phoneme remains the same - e.g. lunch/lunge (/lʌnʧ/ vs /lʌnʤ/)*.

    b

    PS * I tried to think of a more direct comparison, using <consonant> + /ʌʧ/ vs <consonant> + /ʌʤ/ - but couldn't think of one. But several other short vowels would work:

    ledge vs lech (informal abrreviation of 'lecher'; it's even used as a verb, meaning 'behave like a lecher)
    badge vs batch
    pitch 'n (as in the foreshortened golf game '"pitch 'n' putt") vs pigeon
    ... (plenty of others, I'm sure)
    Last edited by BobK; 21-Mar-2011 at 16:03.

  4. #4
    NaVaS is offline Newbie
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    Re: Why "judge" /dʒʌdʒ/ becomes /dʒʌtʃ/ not /dʒɑːdʒ/? /

    BobK, thank you for your explanation.
    The point is I dont understand why the allophone of the last /ʤ/ is always [ʧ]. If the vowel becomes longer, why do you change that sound?
    Well, I hear [ʧ] at least.

    Sorry, Im just learning :)

  5. #5
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    Re: Why "judge" /dʒʌdʒ/ becomes /dʒʌtʃ/ not /dʒɑːdʒ/? /

    So, why not change the vowel rather than the consonant?

    Because while a short and a long /ae/ as in 'bat' and 'bad' are allophones, /ʌ/ and /ɑ:/ are not. 'muck' /mʌk/ and 'mark' /mɑ:k/ are different words, as are /bʌd/ and /bɑːd/; /kʌnt/ and /kɑːnt/.
    Last edited by Raymott; 22-Mar-2011 at 03:50.

  6. #6
    BobK's Avatar
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    Re: Why "judge" /dʒʌdʒ/ becomes /dʒʌtʃ/ not /dʒɑːdʒ/? /

    Quote Originally Posted by NaVaS View Post
    BobK, thank you for your explanation.
    The point is I dont understand why the allophone of the last /ʤ/ is always [ʧ]. If the vowel becomes longer, why do you change that sound?
    Well, I hear [ʧ] at least.

    Sorry, Im just learning :)
    It's not a process that a native speaker is conscious of, or that a student needs to be conscious of.

    b

    PS There's some interesting stuff in this thread: http://www.usingenglish.com/forum/pr...tml#post719603 (about who hears what!).
    Last edited by BobK; 22-Mar-2011 at 17:13. Reason: Added PS

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