Why "judge" /dʒʌdʒ/ becomes /dʒʌtʃ/ not /dʒɑːdʒ/? /

Status
Not open for further replies.

NaVaS

Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2011
Member Type
Student or Learner
Native Language
Spanish
Home Country
Spain
Current Location
Spain
Why "judge" /dʒʌdʒ/ becomes /dʒʌtʃ/ not /dʒɑːdʒ/? /

Hello everyone.

A fortis (unvoiced) consonant appears after a short vowel and a lenis (voiced) consonant appears after a long vowel.
In fact, the "a" sound in rag and rack is different. Watch the video: youtube.com/watch?v=o_GHV6RTy9c

So, why not change the vowel rather than the consonant?
 

BobK

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 29, 2006
Location
Spencers Wood, near Reading, UK
Member Type
Retired English Teacher
Native Language
English
Home Country
UK
Current Location
UK
Re: Why "judge" /dʒʌdʒ/ becomes /dʒʌtʃ/ not /dʒɑːdʒ/? /

I don't understand the question. What happens is what happens. No one thinks 'I know, I'll change the vowel length'; if they did, it wouldn't be what we call 'language'.

b
 

BobK

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 29, 2006
Location
Spencers Wood, near Reading, UK
Member Type
Retired English Teacher
Native Language
English
Home Country
UK
Current Location
UK
Re: Why "judge" /dʒʌdʒ/ becomes /dʒʌtʃ/ not /dʒɑːdʒ/? /

PS Read up about the difference between an Allophone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and Phoneme - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. 'Rag' and 'rack' both have the /æ/ phoneme though the allophones are distinct; so your /ʤʌʤ/ vs /ʤa:ʤ/ is not good. You need to compare words in which the phoneme remains the same - e.g. lunch/lunge (/lʌnʧ/ vs /lʌnʤ/)*.

b

PS * I tried to think of a more direct comparison, using <consonant> + /ʌʧ/ vs <consonant> + /ʌʤ/ - but couldn't think of one. But several other short vowels would work:

ledge vs lech (informal abrreviation of 'lecher'; it's even used as a verb, meaning 'behave like a lecher)
badge vs batch
pitch 'n (as in the foreshortened golf game '"pitch 'n' putt") vs pigeon
... (plenty of others, I'm sure)
 
Last edited:

NaVaS

Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2011
Member Type
Student or Learner
Native Language
Spanish
Home Country
Spain
Current Location
Spain
Re: Why "judge" /dʒʌdʒ/ becomes /dʒʌtʃ/ not /dʒɑːdʒ/? /

BobK, thank you for your explanation.
The point is I don´t understand why the allophone of the last /ʤ/ is always [ʧ]. If the vowel becomes longer, why do you change that sound?
Well, I hear [ʧ] at least.

Sorry, I´m just learning :)
 

Raymott

VIP Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Member Type
Academic
Native Language
English
Home Country
Australia
Current Location
Australia
Re: Why "judge" /dʒʌdʒ/ becomes /dʒʌtʃ/ not /dʒɑːdʒ/? /

So, why not change the vowel rather than the consonant?

Because while a short and a long /ae/ as in 'bat' and 'bad' are allophones, /ʌ/ and /ɑ:/ are not. 'muck' /mʌk/ and 'mark' /mɑ:k/ are different words, as are /bʌd/ and /bɑːd/; /kʌnt/ and /kɑːnt/.
 
Last edited:

BobK

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 29, 2006
Location
Spencers Wood, near Reading, UK
Member Type
Retired English Teacher
Native Language
English
Home Country
UK
Current Location
UK
Re: Why "judge" /dʒʌdʒ/ becomes /dʒʌtʃ/ not /dʒɑːdʒ/? /

BobK, thank you for your explanation.
The point is I don´t understand why the allophone of the last /ʤ/ is always [ʧ]. If the vowel becomes longer, why do you change that sound?
Well, I hear [ʧ] at least.

Sorry, I´m just learning :)

It's not a process that a native speaker is conscious of, or that a student needs to be conscious of.

b

PS There's some interesting stuff in this thread: https://www.usingenglish.com/forum/...690-does-full-devoicing-occur.html#post719603 (about who hears what!).
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top