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Thread: as and that

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    #1

    as and that

    Dear teachers,

    Firms have found that the number of staff___________ is needed for quality control can be substantially reduced.

    a. that b. as

    The key is "a". No problem. But I think "b" is also possible since it can introduce relative clause. Is that right?

    Looking forward to hearing from you.
    Thank you in advance.

    Jiang

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    #2

    Re: as and that

    Quote Originally Posted by jiang View Post
    Firms have found that the number of staff___________ is needed for quality control can be substantially reduced.

    a. that b. as

    The key is "a". No problem. But I think "b" is also possible since it can introduce relative clause. Is that right?Jiang
    No

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    #3

    Re: as and that

    Quote Originally Posted by jiang View Post
    Dear teachers,

    Firms have found that the number of staff___________ is needed for quality control can be substantially reduced.

    a. that b. as

    The key is "a". No problem. But I think "b" is also possible since it can introduce relative clause. Is that right?

    Looking forward to hearing from you.
    Thank you in advance.

    Jiang

    ***** NOT A TEACHER *****


    (1) As is used as a relative pronoun after the words such and same.

    (a) Name such persons as you know to be capable.

    (b) He has the same qualifications as I have.

    Source: House and Harman, Descriptive English Grammar (1950), page 63.

    *****

    The following is ONLY my opinion. "As," then, would be a relative

    pronoun in something like:

    Firms have hired only such staff as is needed for quality control.

    Firm A has the same number of staff as Firm B (has).

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    #4

    Re: as and that

    Hi fivejedjon,

    I am afraid I get confused. The following is from my grammar book:

    He is absent, as is often the case.
    He is a teacher, as is clear from his mannner.

    To they are of the same structure. Is thati right?

    Looking forward to hearing from you.
    Thank you in advance.

    Jiang





    Quote Originally Posted by fivejedjon View Post
    No

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    #5

    Re: as and that

    Hi The Parser,
    I am afraid I get confused. The following is from my grammar book:

    He is absent, as is often the case.
    He is a teacher, as is clear from his mannner.

    To they are of the same structure. Is thati right?

    Looking forward to hearing from you.
    Thank you in advance.

    Jiang


    Quote Originally Posted by TheParser View Post
    ***** NOT A TEACHER *****


    (1) As is used as a relative pronoun after the words such and same.

    (a) Name such persons as you know to be capable.

    (b) He has the same qualifications as I have.

    Source: House and Harman, Descriptive English Grammar (1950), page 63.

    *****

    The following is ONLY my opinion. "As," then, would be a relative

    pronoun in something like:

    Firms have hired only such staff as is needed for quality control.

    Firm A has the same number of staff as Firm B (has).

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    #6

    Re: as and that

    Quote Originally Posted by jiang View Post
    Hi The Parser,
    I am afraid I get confused. The following is from my grammar book:

    He is absent, as is often the case.
    He is a teacher, as is clear from his mannner.

    To they are of the same structure. Is thati right?

    Looking forward to hearing from you.
    Thank you in advance.

    Jiang

    ***** NOT A TEACHER *****


    (1) I believe that you are 100% correct.

    (a) English Review Grammar by Mr. Walter Kay Smart says:

    A special use of as as a relative pronoun is shown in the following

    sentences.

    The plan was impractical, as the speaker proceeded to explain.
    However, he was right, as later developments proved.
    As [was] predicted, the parade was a success.
    [My note: I think that you could also say: The parade was a success, as
    predicted. Native speakers often delete (leave out) the "was."]

    Mr. Smart says that the use of "as" in these sentences "refers to a

    whole statement."

    Mr. Smart then adds something very important. He reminds us that

    some writers prefer to use "which" as a relative pronoun to refer to the

    idea in a preceding sentence. He says that his first example could also

    be written as: The plan was impractical, which the speaker proceeded to

    demonstrate.

    IMPORTANT: Mr. Smart (and others) remind us that when we use

    "as" or "which" in such sentences, that word = a fact that.

    Thus, "He is a teacher, a fact that is clear from his manner." According to

    Mr. Smart, this kind of as/which relative clause is almost like a parenthetical

    expression.

    (2) Here is a sentence from Random House Webster's Unabridged

    Dictionary:

    She did her job well, as can be proved by the record.

    [My note: In other words:

    She did her job well. That fact (that she did her job well) can be

    proved by the record.]
    Last edited by TheParser; 24-Mar-2011 at 11:59.

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    #7

    Re: as and that

    Hi TheParser,

    Thank you so much for your help and thank you so much for spending so much time typing the explanation to my question. It must have been time-consuming.

    I understand your explanation.

    Jiang
    Quote Originally Posted by TheParser View Post
    ***** NOT A TEACHER *****


    (1) I believe that you are 100% correct.

    (a) English Review Grammar by Mr. Walter Kay Smart says:

    A special use of as as a relative pronoun is shown in the following

    sentences.

    The plan was impractical, as the speaker proceeded to explain.
    However, he was right, as later developments proved.
    As [was] predicted, the parade was a success.
    [My note: I think that you could also say: The parade was a success, as
    predicted. Native speakers often delete (leave out) the "was."]

    Mr. Smart says that the use of "as" in these sentences "refers to a

    whole statement."

    Mr. Smart then adds something very important. He reminds us that

    some writers prefer to use "which" as a relative pronoun to refer to the

    idea in a preceding sentence. He says that his first example could also

    be written as: The plan was impractical, which the speaker proceeded to

    demonstrate.

    IMPORTANT: Mr. Smart (and others) remind us that when we use

    "as" or "which" in such sentences, that word = a fact that.

    Thus, "He is a teacher, a fact that is clear from his manner." According to

    Mr. Smart, this kind of as/which relative clause is almost like a parenthetical

    expression.

    (2) Here is a sentence from Random House Webster's Unabridged

    Dictionary:

    She did her job well, as can be proved by the record.

    [My note: In other words:

    She did her job well. That fact (that she did her job well) can be

    proved by the record.]

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