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  1. #11
    Mary Bright is offline Junior Member
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    Re: Questions on Grammar and Punctuation!!!

    Tnank you, Bide. Could you just clarify some points for me, please?

    1) Here you say,

    Quote Originally Posted by Bide View Post
    These houses were built according to Bob Builder's Ben Johnson project.

    You can leave out the bits in ( ).

    The buildings (which are) situated there belong to the postwar period. Here you have a reduced relative clause. 'situated there' is a post-nomial descriptive attribute here, an adjective. In my opinion no comma is needed or warranted. If the relative clause was not reduced, I still wouldn't use commas
    Then you say,
    Quote Originally Posted by Bide View Post

    This next sentence is missing something. I added a prepositional adverbial: 'on this corner'
    There used to be a convent, (which was) built in 1813, on this corner. Here you have a reduced relative clause. I would recommend using commas.
    There are two relative clauses in these sentences, according to your words, but still, in the first case you recommend using commas and in the second one you don't. What's the difference?

  2. #12
    Mary Bright is offline Junior Member
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    Re: Questions on Grammar and Punctuation!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover_KE View Post
    As it's a proper noun, use the.

    This is getting confusing, Mary. We're having to search through to see which questions haven't been addressed yet.

    Please post your unanswered questions separately, with meaningful titles like This is Old Town and The October cinema.

    Rover
    Thanks. That's what I'm going to do.

  3. #13
    Mary Bright is offline Junior Member
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    Re: Questions on Grammar and Punctuation!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bide View Post
    This next sentence is missing something. I added a prepositional adverbial: 'on this corner'
    There used to be a convent, (which was) built in 1813, on this corner. Here you have a reduced relative clause. I would recommend using commas.
    Do you mean this marked out construction to be sort of introductory, as there is/there are, and an indicitation of time is therefore needed? And if I said something like, 'In this street used to be a convent built in 1813', would it be all right?

  4. #14
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    5jj is offline VIP Member
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    Re: Questions on Grammar and Punctuation!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Barb_D View Post
    You could say King John II's wife.
    We'd say that as, 'King John the Second's wife'.
    Last edited by 5jj; 26-Mar-2011 at 15:54. Reason: typo

  5. #15
    Bide is offline Newbie
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    Re: Questions on Grammar and Punctuation!!!

    As your original question was about commas, I would recommend you read the work of R L Trask, late Professor of Linguistics of the University of Sussex. He remains unsurpassed in clarity, conciseness and precision. His simple 'Penguin Guide to Punctuation' will, I'm sure, answer all of your questions on the subject..

    My clarity, conciseness and precision are a bit dodgy!! (Especially at this time of night)

    I'll get back to you on the other stuff.

  6. #16
    Bide is offline Newbie
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    Re: Questions on Grammar and Punctuation!!!

    "There are two relative clauses in these sentences, according to your words, but still, in the first case you recommend using commas and in the second one you don't. What's the difference?"

    The difference is a difference in meaning which stems from the interpretation of 'which are situated there' as a restrictive relative clause. To quote Prof. Trask: "A restrictive relative clause is required to identify what is being talked about, and never receives bracketing commas. A non-restrictive relative clause is not required for identification, but only adds further information, and it always receives bracketing commas."

    You can quite correctly argue, 'The buildings belong to the postwar period.' is a good sentence, and so 'situated there' is not a restrictive relative clause. However, you are now talking about all (the) buildings, not a specific set of buildings identified as 'situated there'. The sentence now has a different subject.

    There used to be a convent, (which was) built in 1813, on this corner. There probably weren't too many convents built 'on this corner' 'in 1813', 'built in 1813' is not a unique identifier, not essential, so you should use bracketing commas around the non-restrictive relative clause.

  7. #17
    Mary Bright is offline Junior Member
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    Re: Questions on Grammar and Punctuation!!!

    I see that now. Appreciate your help, Bide. Actually, I was told about restrictive and non-restrictive relative clauses at the University, but have quite forgotten about it to this moment. The clarity came when you named them.

    The name of the book you recommended seems pretty familiar... Would be interesting to read it. If I find the book, of course.

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