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  1. #1
    HerTz is offline Newbie
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    Default Dental Fricative [Th Sound] : My Nightmare

    Hey guys,

    I've had enough with this consonant. I still can't articulate good enough when I'm talking fast. My mother language does not have the consonants θ and ­, but it has the consonants s and z.
    s and z (Alveolar) are the two consonants that occur in the mouth just before θ and ­ (Dental).

    Anyhow, I think I can learn how to articulate θ and ­ if you could describe how does the tongue's and/or the mouth's position change when you articulate θ and ­, after articulating s and z.

    Also, does your tongue touch any part of the teeth?

  2. #2
    BobK's Avatar
    BobK is offline Harmless drudge
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    Default Re: Dental Fricative [Th Sound] : My Nightmare

    Yes it does touch. The easiest way of describing this is: look in a mirror. Those two fricatives are the only consonants in Br Eng that let you see the tongue.

    b

  3. #3
    5jj's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dental Fricative [Th Sound] : My Nightmare

    Quote Originally Posted by HerTz View Post
    Anyhow, I think I can learn how to articulate θ and ­ if you could describe how does the tongue's and/or the mouth's position change when you articulate θ and ­, after articulating s and z.
    If you can already produce /s/ and /z/, and are confident that you will be able to pronounce /θ/ and /­/, then there is no real problem in saying such things as 'cross the road, cross thick mud, close the door, Rose thinks'. The tongue slides forward from the alveolar ridge to the teeth. In informal conversation the full glide may not be completed, and you may actually hear things that sound similar to 'cross a road, cross sick mud, close a door, Rose sinks'.

    The glide the other way appears to be more difficult, even for native speakers, and you will often hear 'months' pronounced as /mʌnts/ or /mʌns/, 'clothes' as /kləʊz/, and both 'sixth' and'sixths' as /sɪks/ or /sɪkst/
    Last edited by 5jj; 08-Apr-2011 at 19:52. Reason: typo

  4. #4
    birdeen's call is offline VIP Member
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    Default Re: Dental Fricative [Th Sound] : My Nightmare

    HerTz, try pronouncing the interdental fricative. Put the tip of your tongue between your teeth, touching your upper teeth. You say:
    s and z (Alveolar) are the two consonants that occur in the mouth just before θ and ­ (Dental).
    There is a small distance between the position of your tongue in dental consonants and the position in alveolar consonants. If you make your dental fricatives interdental, you will make the distance larger, which could help you contrast them with the alveolar ones.

  5. #5
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    ÷zlemlonging is offline Newbie
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    Default Re: Dental Fricative [Th Sound] : My Nightmare

    Uhhh really nightmare

  6. #6
    BobK's Avatar
    BobK is offline Harmless drudge
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    Default Re: Dental Fricative [Th Sound] : My Nightmare

    Quote Originally Posted by birdeen's call View Post
    HerTz, try pronouncing the interdental fricative. Put the tip of your tongue between your teeth, touching your upper teeth. ...
    And, indeed, your lower teeth. This is risky if you fall over.

    b

  7. #7
    HerTz is offline Newbie
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    Default Re: Dental Fricative [Th Sound] : My Nightmare

    Guys, thanks very much for the responses. By the way, I found this really helpful GIF from a Australian university website.



    According to this GIF, only the tip of the tongue changes its position and the base of the tongue remains same. Also the tongue does not touch the teeth unless it's a interdental consonant.

    Quote Originally Posted by BobK View Post
    Yes it does touch. The easiest way of describing this is: look in a mirror. Those two fricatives are the only consonants in Br Eng that let you see the tongue.

    b


    Thanks for the great tip. By the way according to the GIF and the image above, if it's a fricative we're talking about it does not touch the teeth but it the tongue comes really close to the teeth, unless special cases. (interdental consonant)

    Quote Originally Posted by fivejedjon View Post
    If you can already produce /s/ and /z/, and are confident that you will be able to pronounce /θ/ and /­/, then there is no real problem in saying such things as 'cross the road, cross thick mud, close the door, Rose thinks'. The tongue slides forward from the alveolar ridge to the teeth. In informal conversation the full glide may not be completed, and you may actually hear things that sound similar to 'cross a road, cross sick mud, close a door, Rose sinks'.

    The glide the other way appears to be more difficult, even for native speakers, and you will often hear 'months' pronounced as /mʌnts/ or /mʌns/, 'clothes' as /klʊəz/, and both 'sixth' and'sixths' as /sɪks/ or /sɪkst/
    Thanks for the great tip. By the way one of the IPA of the word "clothes" is already /kloʊz/ or in the Received Pronunciation /kləʊz/. *

    Quote Originally Posted by BobK View Post
    And, indeed, your lower teeth. This is risky if you fall over.

    b
    Thanks for your response. But I couldn't understand "fall over".

    Quote Originally Posted by birdeen's call View Post
    HerTz, try pronouncing the interdental fricative. Put the tip of your tongue between your teeth, touching your upper teeth. You say:
    There is a small distance between the position of your tongue in dental consonants and the position in alveolar consonants. If you make your dental fricatives interdental, you will make the distance larger, which could help you contrast them with the alveolar ones.
    Thanks for the great tip. I'm still hesitant for the usage of the interdental consonants, because according to Wikipedia the interdental consonants are only used in General American when articulating words like 'then' and 'thin'. *
    Last edited by HerTz; 08-Apr-2011 at 19:57.

  8. #8
    5jj's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dental Fricative [Th Sound] : My Nightmare

    Quote Originally Posted by HerTz View Post
    . Also the tongue does not touch the teeth unless it's a interdental consonant. Thanks for the great tip. By the way according to the image above, if it's a fricative we're talking about it does not touch the teeth, unless special cases. (interdental consonant)
    In the BrE dental fricatives, "the tips and rims of the tongue make light contact with the edge and inner surface of the upper incisors, and a firmer contact with the upper side teeth [....] With some speakers, the tongue tip may protrude between the teeth..."

    Cruttenden, Alan (2001) Gimson's Pronunciation of English, London: Arnold.

    ps. sorry about my typo in /kləʊz/, now corrected.

  9. #9
    HerTz is offline Newbie
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    Default Re: Dental Fricative [Th Sound] : My Nightmare

    Quote Originally Posted by fivejedjon View Post
    In the BrE dental fricatives, "the tips and rims of the tongue make light contact with the edge and inner surface of the upper incisors, and a firmer contact with the upper side teeth [....] With some speakers, the tongue tip may protrude between the teeth..."

    Cruttenden, Alan (2001) Gimson's Pronunciation of English, London: Arnold.

    ps. sorry about my typo in /kləʊz/, now corrected.
    Thanks for the reply.

    Then I'm wrong about that fricatives not touching the teeth.

    So, in Received Pronunciation the tongue touches slightly to the teeth.

  10. #10
    birdeen's call is offline VIP Member
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    Default Re: Dental Fricative [Th Sound] : My Nightmare

    Quote Originally Posted by HerTz View Post
    Thanks for the great tip. I'm still hesitant for the usage of the interdental consonants, because according to Wikipedia the interdental consonants are only used in General American when articulating words like 'then' and 'thin'. *
    I don't think you need to worry about this. The difference between the two types is very slight. I know I couldn't tell which one a person is pronouncing.

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