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Thread: Churchill

  1. #1
    suprunp's Avatar
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    Question Churchill

    "Defeat is bitter. There is no use in trying to
    explain defeat. People do not like defeat
    and they do not like the explanations,
    however elaborate or plausible, which are
    given of them."
    Q: What does "them" stand for? Thanks.

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    freezeframe is offline Key Member
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    Default Re: Churchill

    Quote Originally Posted by suprunp View Post
    "Defeat is bitter. There is no use in trying to
    explain defeat. People do not like defeat
    and they do not like the explanations,
    however elaborate or plausible, which are
    given of them."
    Q: What does "them" stand for? Thanks.
    People.

    People ... do not like the explanations ... given to them.

  3. #3
    5jj's Avatar
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    Default Re: Churchill

    Quote Originally Posted by suprunp View Post
    "Defeat is bitter. There is no use in trying to
    explain defeat. People do not like defeat
    and they do not like the explanations,
    however elaborate or plausible, which are
    given of them."
    Q: What does "them" stand for? Thanks.
    I have to disagree with freezeframe here..

    It is the explanations of the defeat which are give to the people.

  4. #4
    freezeframe is offline Key Member
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    Default Re: Churchill

    Quote Originally Posted by fivejedjon View Post
    I have to disagree with freezeframe here..

    It is the explanations of the defeat which are give to the people.
    Yeah, you're right. I misread "of" as "to".

  5. #5
    5jj's Avatar
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    Default Re: Churchill

    Quote Originally Posted by freezeframe View Post
    Yeah, you're right. I misread "of" as "to".
    Easily done. Fifty per cent of the letters are the same, even if they are in a different position.

  6. #6
    freezeframe is offline Key Member
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    Default Re: Churchill

    But now that I reread it, it hurts my brain. Is he treating "defeat" as plural? Or is "explanations given of them" (to refer back to explanations) something meaningful in BrE?

  7. #7
    5jj's Avatar
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    Default Re: Churchill

    Quote Originally Posted by freezeframe View Post
    But now that I reread it, it hurts my brain. Is he treating "defeat" as plural? Or is "explanations given of them" (to refer back to explanations) something meaningful in BrE?
    He is saying that people do not like the explanations (plural) of defeat (uncountable) that are given, however elaborate or plausible these explanations might be. That seems OK to me, though I would have used 'for' rather than 'of'.

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    freezeframe is offline Key Member
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    Default Re: Churchill

    Quote Originally Posted by fivejedjon View Post
    He is saying that people do not like the explanations (plural) of defeat (uncountable) that are given, however elaborate or plausible these explanations might be. That seems OK to me, though I would have used 'for' rather than 'of'.
    "Explanations which are given of/for explanations"? This still does not compute for me. Please use small words.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Churchill

    Quote Originally Posted by freezeframe View Post
    "Explanations which are given of/for explanations"? This still does not compute for me. Please use small words.
    I feel a certain tension in my leg, as though somebody is trying to extend its length. However, soft-hearted and gullible as ever, I will try:

    Not: explanations of/for explanations, but:

    ex-plan-a-tions of de-feat or
    ex-plan-a-tions for de-feat.

    These (ex-plan-a-tions) are giv-en to peo-ple.
    The peo-ple do not like t-h-e-m (the ex-plan-a-tions)..

  10. #10
    bhaisahab's Avatar
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    Default Re: Churchill

    Quote Originally Posted by freezeframe View Post
    "Explanations which are given of/for explanations"? This still does not compute for me. Please use small words.
    It is unkind to pull the legs of elderly members.

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