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  1. #1
    starry_eyes is offline Newbie
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    Post Prepositional Complement, Subj Complement, Noun Complement, Modality

    Good morning!
    I just want to ask you to help me clarifying this topics.

    1) Is the Prepositional Complement the same of OBJECT OF PREPOSITION?
    2) A man named "SPAM KING" had been arrested. " SPAM KING" is considered by my teacher as a SUBJ.COMPLEMENT....but I don't understand why! Is the subj.complement the structure which is obligatory after a copula or linking verbs?I think that "TO NAME" is neither a COPULA nor a LINKING VERB.
    3) The claim THAT THEY FOUND A CURE is unfounded. "THAT THEY FOUND A CURE" is considered by my teacher as a NOUN COMPLEMENT. Why? Is NOUN COMPLEMENT the same of PREDICATE NOMINATIVE?

    4)As regards the MODALITY, it can be EPISTEMIC or DEONTIC.... I have some doubts as regard to these sentences:
    - The men, WEARING anoraks and hats, made off in a stolen Volvo estate"
    -The Prime Minister IS BEING ENCOURAGED to sack the Health Minister."
    It is said that in this sentences (as regard the verbs "Wearing" and "Is being encouraged") the MODALITY isn't realised...but why? When a modality isn't realised?

    THANKS to whoever can help me :)
    These questions are very important for me! Next week I will have an exam.

  2. #2
    TheParser is offline Key Member
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    Default Re: Prepositional Complement, Subj Complement, Noun Complement, Modality

    Quote Originally Posted by starry_eyes View Post
    Good morning!
    I just want to ask you to help me clarifying this topics.

    1) Is the Prepositional Complement the same of OBJECT OF PREPOSITION?
    2) A man named "SPAM KING" had been arrested. " SPAM KING" is considered by my teacher as a SUBJ.COMPLEMENT....but I don't understand why! Is the subj.complement the structure which is obligatory after a copula or linking verbs?I think that "TO NAME" is neither a COPULA nor a LINKING VERB.
    3) The claim THAT THEY FOUND A CURE is unfounded. "THAT THEY FOUND A CURE" is considered by my teacher as a NOUN COMPLEMENT. Why? Is NOUN COMPLEMENT the same of PREDICATE NOMINATIVE?

    4)As regards the MODALITY, it can be EPISTEMIC or DEONTIC.... I have some doubts as regard to these sentences:
    - The men, WEARING anoraks and hats, made off in a stolen Volvo estate"
    -The Prime Minister IS BEING ENCOURAGED to sack the Health Minister."
    It is said that in this sentences (as regard the verbs "Wearing" and "Is being encouraged") the MODALITY isn't realised...but why? When a modality isn't realised?

    THANKS to whoever can help me :)
    These questions are very important for me! Next week I will have an exam.

    ***** NOT A TEACHER *****



    Hello,


    (1) First, good luck on your test. I KNOW that you WILL do very WELL on it.

    (2) You are much smarter than I. I never could understand big words like "deontic."

    (3) No. 1. The Oxford Dictionary of English Grammar defines "prepositional complement" as:

    The word or phrase "governed" by a preposition . (Also called object of preposition.)

    in the end
    before the war
    in short
    afraid of being killed

    So I guess the answer to No. 1 is YES!!! (I didn't know that until I read it this morning. Thanks for teaching me something new.)

    ***

    I do not have the confidence to touch No. 2.

    ***

    No. 3. I agree with your teacher.

    If you remove the clause, you get "The claim is unfounded."

    Of course, someone would ask "What claim?"

    Then you would say:

    Oh, that they found a cure.

    I believe books say that "that they found a cure" is a noun clause in

    apposition with "claim." (It explains "claim.") As you know, you could

    delete (erase/drop) "that."

    You ask whether a predicate nominative is the same as a noun clause.

    Well, I think the answer is NO, BUT a noun clause CAN be a predicate

    nominative. Here is an example from my favorite grammar book

    (Descriptive English Grammar by Professors House and Harman, written

    in the "olden" days of 1931):


    The question is whether he can be nominated.

    (The noun clause "Whether he can be nominated" refers to "question.")

    ***

    Of course, I would not even dare to try answering No. 4.

    Good luck!!!


    James

  3. #3
    Mannysteps is offline Member
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    Default Re: Prepositional Complement, Subj Complement, Noun Complement, Modality

    Not a teacher:

    Now, is it not a funny thing, Parser, that English is a lot easier to learn than to dissect? At university I heard a wise comment:

    "If the explanation is more complex than the theme being explained, then the explanation is wrong."

    A very wise women, she was.

    Most appreciative of your posts.
    Regards,

    M.
    Last edited by Mannysteps; 21-Jun-2011 at 15:10.

  4. #4
    starry_eyes is offline Newbie
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    Default Re: Prepositional Complement, Subj Complement, Noun Complement, Modality

    Quote Originally Posted by TheParser View Post
    ***** NOT A TEACHER *****



    Hello,


    (1) First, good luck on your test. I KNOW that you WILL do very WELL on it.

    (2) You are much smarter than I. I never could understand big words like "deontic."

    (3) No. 1. The Oxford Dictionary of English Grammar defines "prepositional complement" as:

    The word or phrase "governed" by a preposition . (Also called object of preposition.)

    in the end
    before the war
    in short
    afraid of being killed

    So I guess the answer to No. 1 is YES!!! (I didn't know that until I read it this morning. Thanks for teaching me something new.)

    ***

    I do not have the confidence to touch No. 2.

    ***

    No. 3. I agree with your teacher.

    If you remove the clause, you get "The claim is unfounded."

    Of course, someone would ask "What claim?"

    Then you would say:

    Oh, that they found a cure.

    I believe books say that "that they found a cure" is a noun clause in

    apposition with "claim." (It explains "claim.") As you know, you could

    delete (erase/drop) "that."

    You ask whether a predicate nominative is the same as a noun clause.

    Well, I think the answer is NO, BUT a noun clause CAN be a predicate

    nominative. Here is an example from my favorite grammar book

    (Descriptive English Grammar by Professors House and Harman, written

    in the "olden" days of 1931):


    The question is whether he can be nominated.

    (The noun clause "Whether he can be nominated" refers to "question.")

    ***

    Of course, I would not even dare to try answering No. 4.

    Good luck!!!


    James
    Thanks James!!! I'm really happy to have received your reply!
    Perfect, now I'm sure about prepositional complement and object of preposition that are the same thing.
    I can't understand NOUN COMPLEMENT.. nothing is written about it in my grammar so is very difficult for me understanding completely. Can you help me, giving a name of a grammar book or a link or others examples of noun complement? :)
    Thank u!!!
    As regards the modality which can be EPISTEMIC or DEONTIC is really simple....The Epistemic modality allows speakers to indicate that they are certain about something,unsure about it or deem it impossible. (ex: She must have been using my computer for ages)We have a Deontic Modality when people order,promise or place an obligation on someone. (Ex: I suggested she contact Human Resources)
    The problem is that I don't know why my teacher said, in the sentences I posted, the modality is not realised!! :(

  5. #5
    TheParser is offline Key Member
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    Default Re: Prepositional Complement, Subj Complement, Noun Complement, Modality

    [QUOTE=starry_eyes;766341]Good morning!





    ***** NOT A TEACHER *****


    It's I again!!! (Ok!!! It's me again in regular English.)

    (1) Your test is coming up. You need help now. Since you are a new

    member, I am going to tell you a secret: if your thread has only one

    question, you will get a faster reply, including replies from teachers.

    (2) I suggest that you start three new threads: one on subjective

    complements, one on noun complements, and one on epistemic/deontic.

    Try to use different sentences as examples. (Moderators do not want

    people to repeat the same sentences in new threads.)

    Best wishes


    James


    P.S. Let us know how you did on the test.

  6. #6
    TheParser is offline Key Member
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    Default Re: Prepositional Complement, Subj Complement, Noun Complement, Modality

    [QUOTE=starry_eyes;766341]Good morning!

    3) The claim THAT THEY FOUND A CURE is unfounded. "THAT THEY FOUND A CURE" is considered by my teacher as a NOUN COMPLEMENT. Why? Is NOUN COMPLEMENT the same of PREDICATE NOMINATIVE?




    These questions are very important for me! Next week I will have an exam.

    ***** NOT A TEACHER *****


    Hello:

    (1) You have posted three new threads. Great work!!!

    (2) As I type this, your thread on "Subjective Complements"

    has been answered by one of the best teachers here.

    (3) You are still waiting for someone to respond to your two

    other threads: Noun complements; Deontic & Epistemic Modality.

    (4) Your test is next week. Of course, you want something to study

    over the weekend. If no one answers by Friday, I think that it would be

    OK to "bump up" your thread with a short respectful note: Would someone

    please help me? Thank you.

    (5) I have found some information that I wish to give you in this

    old thread. (I want only teachers and smarter non-teachers than I

    to respond to your brand-new threads.)

    ***


    (6) First, let's get a few terms clear:

    (a) She is an architect.

    (i) That is a subjective complement because it refers to the subject.'

    (a) Because "architect" is a noun, we can also call it:

    (i) predicate nominative or

    (ii) predicate noun

    (b) He is tall.

    (i) That is a subjective complement because ....

    (a) to be more exact, since "tall" is an adjective, we can

    call it a predicate adjective.

    ***

    (7) You ask: Is a predicate nominative/ predicate noun the same as

    a noun complement? I now have the confidence to say NO!!!


    ***

    (8) You say that your teacher calls "that they found a cure" a noun

    complement in "The claim that they found a cure is unfounded."

    I was confused because I think (as I explained earlier in this thread)

    that most people simply say that "that they found a cure" is a noun

    clause in apposition with the noun "claim."

    (9) GOOD NEWS!!! I have some information that agrees with your

    teacher. Mesdames Celce-Murcia and Larsen-Freeman have written

    The Grammar Book, which many teachers use. And they also use the

    term "noun complement" to describe sentences such as your teacher's.

    Here is an example of theirs:

    The fact/ suggestion/ possibility/idea/statement that Jolene

    is pregnant surprised Jack.

    They -- like your teacher -- call "that Jolene is pregnant" a so-called

    noun complement because it explains the noun fact/suggestion/possibility/

    idea/ statement/ or your teacher's example of claim.

    Here are more of their examples of so-called "noun complements":

    We rejected the idea that John might be the chairman.
    The possibility that it would rain put a damper on our plans.

    I have bad news now: It is a noun complement if you can erase the

    noun complement, and the sentence still has your basic meaning.

    But in "The idea that John proposed is appealing," the words "that John

    proposed" is vital to the meaning, so that is a relative/adjective clause

    that cannot be erased.


    Good luck on your test.


    James

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