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  1. #1
    geordief is offline Newbie
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    A confusing (to me) exchange

    I have a correspondent that I feel uncomfortable in requizzing on his/her reply. Is any one able to settle the (liguistic or semantic?) question?

    I cannot decide whether his/her language is too unclear (loads of negatives and also a double negative) or is my understanding too limited to see the wood for the trees?

    (Q 1) Secondly , does the dream state have its own unconscious?

    I ask that question because I had a dream where I had forgotten the address of somebody and was (in this dream) walking through the town and hey presto I bumped into someone who said "oh by the way the number of that house is 27)

    To me (when I awoke) it seemed that that was a little too convenient and I wonder did my dream invent that meeting just to elicit the address?

    (A 1) The dreaming state is the unconscious; therefore, it isn't unlikely to be unconsciously aware of information that is not uppermost in our conscious memory.


    (Q 2) did you slip in an extra negative into that sentence by mistake?
    Was it meant to read "isn't likely " instead of "isn't unlikely" ?
    Otherwise it breaks down to "is likely" doesn't it?


    (A 2) It is likely that you are unconsciously aware of more information than your are consciously; therefore, to dream about information you have consciously forgotten is not unusual. I hope this helps.

    It should be easy to Google this exchange if you need the rest of the context

  2. #2
    Raymott's Avatar
    Raymott is offline VIP Member
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    Re: A confusing (to me) exchange

    Quote Originally Posted by geordief View Post
    I have a correspondent that I feel uncomfortable in requizzing on his/her reply. Is any one able to settle the (liguistic or semantic?) question?

    I cannot decide whether his/her language is too unclear (loads of negatives and also a double negative) or is my understanding too limited to see the wood for the trees?
    Both, I'd say.

    (Q 1) Secondly , does the dream state have its own unconscious?

    I ask that question because I had a dream where I had forgotten the address of somebody and was (in this dream) walking through the town and hey presto I bumped into someone who said "oh by the way the number of that house is 27)

    To me (when I awoke) it seemed that that was a little too convenient and I wonder did my dream invent that meeting just to elicit the address?

    (A 1) The dreaming state is the unconscious; therefore, it isn't unlikely to be unconsciously aware of information that is not uppermost in our conscious memory.

    A1 is an answer of "No" to question 1 - if you assume that "isn't unlikely" should read "is unlikely", which A2 seems to agree with.
    Your correspondent is saying that the dreaming state is the unconscious, so it can't have an unconscious.

    However, it can still make sense as it's written with "isn't unlikely" = "is likely". The problem is that there is no distinction made in the second half of the sentence between the conscious state and the waking state.
    It could mean that, because the dreaming state is the unconscious, the dreaming state is likely to be aware of that which is unconscious (not uppermost) in our waking (conscious) state.


    (Q 2) did you slip in an extra negative into that sentence by mistake?
    Was it meant to read "isn't likely " instead of "isn't unlikely" ?
    Otherwise it breaks down to "is likely" doesn't it?
    Yes, it does.

    (A 2) It is likely that you are unconsciously aware of more information than your are consciously; therefore, to dream about information you have consciously forgotten is not unusual. I hope this helps.
    [It is likely that] When you are awake, there is more information in your unconscious than in your conscious mind.
    Therefore, when you go to sleep, it is not unusual to dream about some of this unconscious content - since the dream state is the unconscious.

    It should be easy to Google this exchange if you need the rest of the context
    It would have been useful if your correspondent had answered the question about "isn't unlikely" rather than just trying to paraphrase their answer again.

    Note: I don't necessarily agree with the answers given.

  3. #3
    geordief is offline Newbie
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    Re: A confusing (to me) exchange

    thanks ,so maybe it wasn't just me being obtuse.

    I think you're right about there being a little lack of clarity his/her side and a lack of insight on my own part.
    Last edited by geordief; 29-Jun-2011 at 16:09.

  4. #4
    jahildebrandt is offline Junior Member
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    Re: A confusing (to me) exchange

    Quote Originally Posted by geordief View Post
    (A 1) The dreaming state is the unconscious; therefore, it isn't unlikely to be unconsciously aware of information that is not uppermost in our conscious memory.
    There are 3 levels of consciousness: Conscious, unconscious, and subconscious. It's a bit beyond my ability to concisely sum up the three here, but it's entirely possible to subconsciously (i.e. not be aware) note something and store it in your mind to have it seemingly randomly manifest itself in a dream. If anything, the dreaming state is the subconscious. To be unconscious is to be knocked out, non-dreaming, non-cognizant.

    (Q 2) did you slip in an extra negative into that sentence by mistake?
    Was it meant to read "isn't likely " instead of "isn't unlikely" ?
    Otherwise it breaks down to "is likely" doesn't it?


    (A 2) It is likely that you are unconsciously aware of more information than your are consciously; therefore, to dream about information you have consciously forgotten is not unusual. I hope this helps.
    As for the "isn't likely" vs "isn't unlikely" aspect, there could have been a missed typographical error. I took it to mean isn't likely; however, there are times when double (or triple+) negatives are semantically used as reinforcement:
    "She ain't gonna get no money" = She will not receive money, not she will receive money.

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