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Thread: Am I Right ?

  1. #1
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    Default Am I Right ?

    Dear Mr. Ahmad,

    In reference to your letter dated on 2nd of June 2003 ; asking for a sample of the latest edition of our book”The Lost Diamond”.
    We would like to inform you that the sample has been earlier dispatched to you .
    It seems to me that the sample has not been received yet.
    Again, we send you another sample .
    Have my rememberances and esteem.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Being a 20-year experienced man , my Pakistani co-worker who speaks English edited my reply above and did the following changes :

    It seems to me that you have not received the sample yet.
    He deleted “Have …esteem”
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    So, my question is :
    Is my phatic style correct or his ?


    Thank you in advance,


    Ayed ,
    :)

  2. #2
    Tdol is offline Editor, UsingEnglish.com
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    It's difficult to say because the style wouldn't be used in British English. I wouldn't use the sentence he deleted because it sounds rather old fashioned to me, but different countries have different customs. I think the change from passive to active does make the first sentence tighter.

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    Default Re: Am I Right ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ayed
    Dear Mr. Ahmad,

    In reference to your letter dated on 2nd of June 2003 ; asking for a sample of the latest edition of our book”The Lost Diamond”.
    We would like to inform you that the sample has been earlier dispatched to you .
    It seems to me that the sample has not been received yet.
    Again, we send you another sample .
    Have my rememberances and esteem.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Being a 20-year experienced man , my Pakistani co-worker who speaks English edited my reply above and did the following changes :

    It seems to me that you have not received the sample yet.
    He deleted “Have …esteem”
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    So, my question is :
    Is my phatic style correct or his ?

    It wouldn't seem to me that a person would ask for something he had already received, so, offhand, I wouldn't think you would need that sentence.

    In any case, I would say:

    • We would like to inform you that the sample has been sent to you.


    It would also be preferable to mention the date (either exact or approximate) when the item was sent.

    "It seems to me that you have not received the sample yet" does avoid the problem of vagueness associated with the other sentence. As for "Have my remembrances and esteem", I see nothing wrong with that if it is a customary closing in your part of the world. However, here (USA) best regards would do just fine.

    (I looked up phatic in my Funk&Wagnalls and it disappointed me.)

    :)

    [Edited for spelling.]

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    I would say:

    • a man of twenty years' experience


    Or:

    • a man with twenty years of experience


    English idioms
    http://www.usingenglish.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1697

    Brief Verse (Couplets)
    http://www.usingenglish.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1579

    :)

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    Thank you in advance,Mr.RonBee and Mr. tdol

    Mr.RonBee ,

    Phatic speech :” conversational speech used to communicate sociability more than information”

    Phatic expressions such as: His excellency , His Honor ..ect.
    Download Dictionary “Pardon” from site:
    www.softbear.no

    Ayed ,
    :)

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    Tdol is offline Editor, UsingEnglish.com
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    I had to write to a High Commissioner recently and the correct form of address is 'His\Her Excellency'.

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    Default Re: Am I Right ?

    Ayed provided:

    It seems to me that the sample has not been received yet.
    Have my remembrances and esteem.
    Ayed's co-worker provided:

    It seems to me that you have not received the sample yet.
    He deleted “Have …esteem”
    Ayed asked:

    Is my phatic style correct or his?

    Dear Ayed,

    Your co-worker made the following grammatical judgements:

    1) Use active voice instead of passive voice:

    ...you have not received the sample yet. Active Voice
    ...the sample has not been received yet (by you). Passive Voice

    2) In closing a letter, the phrase Have my remembrances and esteem means, I'm giving you my remembrances and esteem; please take them away from me. Given that meaning, I can understand why your co-worker deleted "Have".

    As for deleting 'esteem', well, I'd delete it, too. Here's why:

    esteem = high regard for X.
    my ...esteem = high regard for myself

    'my...esteem' is ambiguous. The reader is not sure if you mean, you have high regard for yourself or high regard for someone else.

    My remembrances and esteem (for myself? or for someone else?)

    To reduce the ambiguity, delete 'my' or delete 'esteem'. Given, though, that "My remembrances" is a set phatic phrase, it's best to delete 'esteem', as did your co-worker:

    My remembrances.

    By the way, in keeping with the phatic style and your intended meaning, you could also add:

    My remembrances and highest of regards to you.

    All the best,

    Cas :)

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    Default Re: Am I Right ?

    I looked up phatic in my Funk&Wagnalls and it disappointed me.

    Step away from the Funk! :D

    phatic adj. Of, relating to, or being speech used to share feelings or to establish a mood of sociability rather than to communicate information or ideas. From Greek phatos, spoken, from phanai, to speak. See -phasia as in Broca's aphasia.

    Pronunciation: [fat'Ik]

    Cas :)

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ayed
    Thank you in advance,Mr.RonBee and Mr. tdol

    Mr.RonBee ,

    Phatic speech :” conversational speech used to communicate sociability more than information”

    Phatic expressions such as: His excellency , His Honor ..ect.
    Download Dictionary “Pardon” from site:
    www.softbear.no

    Ayed ,
    :)
    Thanks. In that case, I don't have enough information to know if he is better at it than you or vice versa. It is certainly true that communication skills involve more than just conveying information. Also, if there is something you don't know but need to know I am sure you are perfectly capable of learning it. :D

    I'll try to remember that about phatic expressions. Thank you for that.

    :D

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    Default Re: Am I Right ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Casiopea
    I looked up phatic in my Funk&Wagnalls and it disappointed me.

    Step away from the Funk! :D

    phatic adj. Of, relating to, or being speech used to share feelings or to establish a mood of sociability rather than to communicate information or ideas. From Greek phatos, spoken, from phanai, to speak. See -phasia as in Broca's aphasia.

    Pronunciation: [fat'Ik]

    Cas :)
    Thanks. I learned two or three things today.

    :D

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