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  1. #1
    Frank Antonson's Avatar
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    Default indirect vs without direct object

    I saw that a thread had been closed on this subject.

    It need not be reopened on my account, but a sample sentence was "I talked to him".

    That sentence seems to me to clearly have a prepositional phrase in it. The sentence " I told him." might serve as a better example. What I told him would be the direct object, but I am not sure that it is necessary for the sentence to be complete. "him" would clearly be the indirect object. I think that this would be an example of an indirect object without a direct object -- unless you insist that the direct object is understood.

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    Hedwig's Avatar
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    Default Re: indirect vs without direct object

    [QUOTE=Frank Antonson;784526]I saw that a thread had been closed on this subject.

    It need not be reopened on my account, but a sample sentence was "I talked to him".

    That sentence seems to me to clearly have a prepositional phrase in it. The sentence " I told him." might serve as a better example. What I told him would be the direct object, but I am not sure that it is necessary for the sentence to be complete. "him" would clearly be the indirect object. I think that this would be an example of an indirect object without a direct object -- unless you insist that the direct object is understood.[/QUOTE]

    I don't see that there's a contradiction. Even if the DO is tacit, the sentence clearly has no DO. I told him is one sentence and I told him that is another sentence. One has a DO and the other doesn't.
    I'm beginning not to understand what's being discussed.

  3. #3
    Frank Antonson's Avatar
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    Default Re: indirect vs without direct object

    By "DO" do you mean "to"?

    The measure for me in English of an indirect object is "can 'to' or 'for' be inserted."?

    I talked TO him. vs I told him. In Latin and German the situation would be clarified by the use of the dative case.

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    Default Re: indirect vs without direct object

    No, by DO I meant Direct Object.
    Latin and German are too much for an ignoramus like me.

  5. #5
    Frank Antonson's Avatar
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    Default Re: indirect vs without direct object

    Okay. Now I understand what you meant.

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    Afit is offline Member
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    Default Re: indirect vs without direct object

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Antonson View Post
    I saw that a thread had been closed on this subject.

    It need not be reopened on my account, but a sample sentence was "I talked to him".

    That sentence seems to me to clearly have a prepositional phrase in it. The sentence " I told him." might serve as a better example. What I told him would be the direct object, but I am not sure that it is necessary for the sentence to be complete. "him" would clearly be the indirect object. I think that this would be an example of an indirect object without a direct object -- unless you insist that the direct object is understood.
    I told him.

    I = S
    told = V
    to whom? him = IO

    The understood DO is wiped out of the sentence but it is still there.

    I told him = SVOO

    There is no SVO with O as an indirect object.

    I talked to him.
    I talked.

    --> to him = optional --> SV (and not SVA); to him = prep. object


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    Hedwig's Avatar
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    Default Re: indirect vs without direct object

    Quote Originally Posted by Afit View Post
    I told him.

    I = S
    told = V
    to whom? him = IO

    The understood DO is wiped out of the sentence but it is still there.

    I told him = SVOO

    There is no SVO with O as an indirect object.

    I talked to him.
    I talked.

    --> to him = optional --> SV (and not SVA); to him = prep. object

    Hmm... I think it all comes down to points of view.
    I've got money. But it's in the bank. I haven't got it with me. It isn't here.
    Same with the D.O.

    In the sentence 'I talked' you will argue that something has been said, etc. I understand that. The O is understood, tacit, whatever, but it isn't in the sentence. This particular sentence has no object. The rest is a matter of speculation.

    In my humble opinion.

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    Afit is offline Member
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    Default Re: indirect vs without direct object

    These are the clause patterns in the Quirkian denotational system:

    1. SV
    2. SVO
    3. SVA
    4. SVOA
    5. SVC
    6. SVOC
    7. SVOO

    I told him. Which of the above is this sentence? SVO? An O in SVO is a monotransitive verb. Monotransitive verbs take a direct object, as opposed to an indirect object, as one of their argument, the other being the subject.

    My argument may come across as somewhat airy-fairy, but I really do not see another way to fit this sentence in the Qirkian taxonomic system for clauses.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: indirect vs without direct object

    Quote Originally Posted by Afit View Post
    These are the clause patterns in the Quirkian denotational system:

    1. SV
    2. SVO
    3. SVA
    4. SVOA
    5. SVC
    6. SVOC
    7. SVOO

    I told him. Which of the above is this sentence? SVO? Correct. An O in SVO is a monotransitive verb. An O is not a verb. Monotransitive verbs take a direct object, as opposed to an indirect object, as one of their argument, the other being the subject. Does the O in SVO stand for DO exclusively? Can't SVO mean either S+V+DO or S+V+IO?

    My argument may come across as somewhat airy-fairy, but I really do not see another way to fit this sentence in the Qirkian taxonomic system for clauses.
    My comments and queries in blue above.

  10. #10
    Afit is offline Member
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    Default Re: indirect vs without direct object

    An O is not a verb.
    I meant a V.

    Does the O in SVO stand for DO exclusively?
    Yes.

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