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  1. #11
    Frank Antonson's Avatar
    Frank Antonson is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Is 'find useful' elliptical?

    You'e right.

    I forgot about "features". It is the subject, modified by "what".

    "Which" , I believe, is understood. I need to look again at the sentence.

  2. #12
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    Default Re: Is 'find useful' elliptical?

    No, wait. "Features" is not the subject. It is the direct object within the infinitive phrase.

    I must look at that sentence -- and diagram it (if I remember how to do that online).

  3. #13
    donnach is offline Member
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    Default Re: Is 'find useful' elliptical?

    Can't it be both?

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Is 'find useful' elliptical?

    No, the infinitive phrase does not have a subject."Consumers" is the subject of the adjective clause included within the infinitive phrase. "Which"( or "that") is the understood relative pronoun.

    An R-K diagram would clearly show this all.

  5. #15
    Curt Jugg is offline Junior Member
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    Default Re: Is 'find useful' elliptical?

    I don't know anything about diagramming, but how about this analysis (based on A Comprehensive Grammar of the English Language by Quirk et al.):



    "what features consumers find useful" is a wh-interrogative clause

    "find" is a complex transitive verb requiring a direct object and an object complement

    "what features" is the direct object

    "useful" is the object complement
    Last edited by Curt Jugg; 11-Sep-2011 at 00:21.

  6. #16
    Frank Antonson's Avatar
    Frank Antonson is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Is 'find useful' elliptical?

    That all may be right. Quirk is a different reference from the one most used in the USA. I do not recognize your first term at all (though I see nothing interrogative about the sentence.)

    Diagramming, the American way (Reed-Kellogg q.v.) does not involve using any grammatical terms. The placement of the actual words of the sentence within the diagram shows the entire syntax.

  7. #17
    Frank Antonson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is 'find useful' elliptical?


  8. #18
    Curt Jugg is offline Junior Member
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    Default Re: Is 'find useful' elliptical?

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Antonson View Post
    That all may be right. Quirk is a different reference from the one most used in the USA. I do not recognize your first term at all (though I see nothing interrogative about the sentence.)

    Diagramming, the American way (Reed-Kellogg q.v.) does not involve using any grammatical terms. The placement of the actual words of the sentence within the diagram shows the entire syntax.
    I agree that there is nothing interrogative about the sentence; I was referring to the clause beginning "what..." But as Quirk isn't much used in the US I won't intrude further

  9. #19
    donnach is offline Member
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    Default Re: Is 'find useful' elliptical?

    Quote Originally Posted by Curt Jugg View Post
    I don't know anything about diagramming, but how about this analysis (based on A Comprehensive Grammar of the English Language by Quirk et al.):



    "what features consumers find useful" is a wh-interrogative clause

    "find" is a complex transitive verb requiring a direct object and an object complement

    "what features" is the direct object

    "useful" is the object complement

    I still find it strange that the direct object can be in front of the subject, verb, and object complement of the clause. Any thoughts on how to reconcile the fact of the situation with my thinking it's awkward and weird?

  10. #20
    Curt Jugg is offline Junior Member
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    Default Re: Is 'find useful' elliptical?

    Oh dear, I did say I wasn't going to intrude further, but since you've asked, I don't think there's anything strange about a direct object being in front of a subject. After all, what about the sentence, “What do you want?” The subject is obviously “you” and the direct object “what”. Or have I misunderstood what you are asking?
    Last edited by Curt Jugg; 11-Sep-2011 at 16:51.

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