What is the subject "alot of people"

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alkaspeltzar

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HI there , I am struggling to find what the subject of the sentence below:

"A lot of people are coming"

Obviously, 'people' are coming, and ' a lot' leads the phrase. But it seems more like 'a lot of" is describing people therefore 'people' is the subject.

I found this on Oxford Dictionary:
(lot itself does not normally function as a head noun, meaning that it does not itself determine whether the following verb is singular or plural. Thus, although lot is singular in a lot of people; , the verb that follows is not singular. In this case , the word people acts as the head noun and, being plural, ensures that the following verb is also plural: a lot of people were assembled;)

So would this mean people is the subject?

I would assume the same would be true for a sentence like;
"a small number of people are coming"......people again is the subject?


Thanks for the help
 

5jj

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TheParser

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ONLY A NON-TEACHER'S OPINION


(1) As the teacher has just told us, you are 100% correct.

(2) Like you, I am also a learner, and we learners love rules. So here is the rule from

Michael Swan's very dependable Practical English Usage. In the 1995 edition, entry

# 326 (on page 319) says:

So when a lot of is used before a plural subject, the verb is plural; when

lots of is used before a singular subject, the verb is singular.

(a) Then Mr. Swan helpfully gives these examples:

A lot of time is needed to learn a language. / A lot of my friends want to emigrate.

***

(3) I could not find anything about "a small number," but he does mention that "a large

of" is used in the same way that we use "a lot of": A large number of problems have to be solved.

(a) So I think that you are again 100% correct: A small number of people are coming.

(i) BUT: English speakers have decided that it is correct to say:

THE number of problems is small. ("Number" is the subject!)
 

alkaspeltzar

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Thanks guys, that makes perfect sense. I appreicate the information.

I have always wondered when somene says "alot of" anything, if the 'anyting' is the subject as if that would be the same situation as 'a number of'.........now I know!

And as for why "the number of people", 'the number' takes the subject that is easier to understand. From english, it is becuase it is the emphasis and main noun being talked about.

Thanks again for the quick response.
 

SoothingDave

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"A lot of people are coming"

Huh? Isn't "of people" a prepositional phrase? How can the object of the preposition be the subject of the sentence?

I was taught that you find the core subject and predicate by removing any prepositional phrases. The core of the sentence is "A lot are coming" isn't it?
 

TheParser

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How can the object of the preposition be the subject of the sentence?


ONLY A NON-TEACHER'S OPINION


(1) I think the answer is: Because that's what "the powers that be" have decided.

In other words, this is one of those exceptions that both learners and native speakers

have to accept.

(2) As you know, A Comprehensive Grammar of the English Language (I have the 1985 edition with 1,779 pages) is widely considered as the authority on grammar.

(a) This is what Professor Quirk and his colleagues have decided (page 264):

Although the quantity nouns lot, deal, etc. look like the head of a noun phrase,

there are grounds for arguing that the whole expression (a lot of, a good deal of,

etc.) functions as a determiner. [I think a "determiner" is what traditional grammar

simply labeled as an adjective.] Notably, the verb regularly has number concord

with the SECOND noun, rather than the FIRST [noun]. [Capital letters are my

emphasis.] The professors' example:

Lots of food was on the table. = There was lots of food on the table.
 

alkaspeltzar

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Yeah, I have alwasy learned that too, that the subject was the noun, minus the prepositional phrase.

But as shown, it does seem like 'a lot of' is describing people and makes more sense that way. That, and I doubt the english grammar books have it wrong. IF it said:

A lot are coming-----that would sound wrong and I would ask, alot of what?
People are coming------that makes more sense in general.

And english is changing. Sometimes nouns are compound, like 'cup of tea" and that is not a phrase or anything but one name for an item. Compound words break the rules too.

I guess this is something I never thought about, but just used.
 

5jj

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(1) I think the answer is: Because that's what "the powers that be" have decided.
.
No, the 'powers that be' did not decide this. They merely recorded what most people actually say and write.

We use 'a lot of' in the way that we do, because (it seems) we consider it as a determiner, like many. Quirk, Swan and all the others note this; they do not decree it.
 

alkaspeltzar

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So tell me this, what are the subjects then in these sentences:

"50% of the people are coming"......is it people?

"50% of the cake is gone"......is it cake?

Do they follow the rule "So when a lot of is used before a plural subject, the verb is plural; when lots of is used before a singular subject, the verb is singular"?

OR is that only true for those specific expressions listed before and not these examples? seems to me it would be the same.


Maybe it does not matter. Maybe eventhough 50% is singular in both, since the overall meaning of the phrase "50% of the people" has a plural understanding, it must take a plural noun. Maybe that is the best answer. What does everyone think?
 

TheParser

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"50% of the people are coming"......is it people?

"50% of the cake is gone"......is it cake?


ONLY A NON-TEACHER'S OPINION


(1) Congratulations! You are 100% correct.

(2) Fifty percent of the toxic waste HAS escaped. ("waste" is singular)

Sixty-six percent of the students ARE satisfied with the class. ("students" is plural)

CREDIT: The Grammar Book by Mesdames Celce-Murcia and Larsen-Freeman.

P.S. You have a choice if the noun is collective:

The two scholars give this example:

One tenth of the population of [a certain country, which I shall not name, for we must

be very sensitive to members' feelings] is/are [of a certain religion].
 

alkaspeltzar

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which part is right? that didn't answer my question as to which part is the subject and also, do those examples even follow that rule?

I am confused, what is what?

SO I will ask again. IF in the example " a number of people are coming",. people is the subject and ' a number of" acts more descriptively, does the same hold true with "50% of the people are coming"?
 

TheParser

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which part is right? that didn't answer my question as to which part is the subject and also, do those examples even follow that rule?

I am confused, what is what?

SO I will ask again. IF in the example " a number of people are coming",. people is the subject and ' a number of" acts more descriptively, does the same hold true with "50% of the people are coming"?


ONLY A NON-TEACHER'S OPINION


(1) "A number of" = many. So that's why "people" is the subject.

(2) "Fifty percent" does NOT = many.

(a) Thus we could analyze it as:

Fifty percent (subject) + of the people (prepositional phrase) + are coming (verb

phrase). (The number of the verb -- singular or plural -- depends on the object of the

preposition."People" is plural.)

Fifty percent (subject) + of the cake + has been eaten. ("cake" is singular.)

Fifty percent (subject) + of the jury (collective noun) is/are women.

("jury" is a collective noun. It can be a unit or different individuals:

The jury has given its decision; The jury are arguing very loudly.)
 

alkaspeltzar

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Okay, I get it, so it is like this.

"a number of" acts like a descriptor more than the main noun( this phrase is a special case like 'alot of'), so hence it is not the subject, 'people' is the subject and ' a number of' acts like "many"

And as for the percentages and stuff, they are the subject. But despite being a singular noun, the entire phrase takes on a plural meaning because of the object of preposition. Therefore the verb is plural.

That is why the examples below work:
Fifty percent (subject) + of the people (prepositional phrase) + are coming (verb

phrase). (The number of the verb -- singular or plural -- depends on the object of the

preposition."People" is plural.)

Fifty percent (subject) + of the cake + has been eaten. ("cake" is singular.)


That is correct, that is what you mean then.
Thanks for all you help.
 

alkaspeltzar

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So can someone please tell me if this is right:

1.) If had the example, "A number of people are gone", then the subject is poeple becuase this is an exception where the phrase " a number of" acts like an adjective telling you there are many. "A number of" is not the noun in the sentence of concern.
Correct? That is my understanding from the previous posts.

2.) My second question was this: If I had the example "1/2 of the people are gone" why do we use the plural verb form when 1/2 is the subject and by definition is a singular object.

The only answer I could really find is because when followed by the plural phrase" of the people" it gives the entire subject(1/2 of the people) a plural meaning, and therefore requires the plural verb form. So even though the subject (1/2) is singular by itself, when read as part of the whole, the understanding must follow the plural object and take the plural verb.

I found this below:
If a fraction or a percentage is followed by a phrase, the number of the noun in the phrase determines the number of the verb. @ Subject-verb Agr

IF this is right, please let me know. Sorry to keep going around on this, but I just has got me confused. THanks and I hope this is the last post.
 

5jj

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Sorry to keep going around on this, but I just has got me confused. THanks and I hope this is the last post.
As you see from some of the posts from native speakers, we don't all agree on why You will find life simpler if you can learn to accept that we say certain things without fully understanding the reason.

These are natural:

A lot of people are wasting money on expensive gadgets they don't use.
A lot of money is being wasted on expensive gadgets that are not used.

A (large) number of people are wasting ....

The number of overweight people in America is ..

50% of Americans are ...
50% of my money is invested ...


Half (of) my friends are ...
Half (of) my money is ...

A couple of my friends are ...

The majority of my friends are

Some of my friends are ... . The rest are ... .
Some of my money is ... . The rest is ... .
 

alkaspeltzar

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Hey, i was only reiterating what was stated on the forum to finally get some closure.

I know nothing is perfect, but I am trying to find some understanding to this. So that does not help me to accept it when I am not surewhat to except.

So all i am asking is that someone with some english back ground, or a teacher look at the examples I propose and let me know if it is right or atleast close to how it is understood in english?

thanks
 
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