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  1. #11
    zorank's Avatar
    zorank is offline Junior Member
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    Default Re: "a such example" or "such example"

    Quote Originally Posted by fivejedjon View Post
    You're just a little too obvious. Go away and practise, and come back in a couple of months. We normally get more subtle ones in this forum.
    This was rude, I think. I reported the post. Shold I be wrong and you are right I will promptly leave the forum. Let's see what the moderators say.
    Regards
    Zoran
    Last edited by zorank; 30-Sep-2011 at 17:59.

  2. #12
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    Default Re: "a such example" or "such example"

    @Birdeen's call:

    Oh boy, this is really bad. Thanks for pointing it out.

    Would it be hard to explain what in the sentence is suggesting the existence of the examples class?

  3. #13
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    Default Re: "a such example" or "such example"

    Quote Originally Posted by birdeen's call View Post
    Actually, I would also like to know why these sentences sound awkward. I agree with zorank that

    Is there such an example where a cat is green?

    employs correct syntax. It is also understandable but there's something wrong with it. I think this is what. The sentence looks as if the speaker thought there was a class of entities called "examples" and were asking whether some of them were examples of a green cat. But this is not how we understand examples. Nothing is an example by itself. Things can be used as examples.
    By the way, shouldn't "an example" imply an instance of the class example? There are many elements (infinitely many) in this class. All possible examples one can meet in life. I am wondering about the possibility of the existence of one element that would exemplify a situation where a cat is green.

    The reason why I am asking is, of course, related to the use of the indefinite article.

  4. #14
    birdeen's call is offline VIP Member
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    Default Re: "a such example" or "such example"

    Quote Originally Posted by zorank View Post
    @Birdeen's call:

    Oh boy, this is really bad. Thanks for pointing it out.

    Would it be hard to explain what in the sentence is suggesting the existence of the examples class?
    An example is always of something. Nothing is just an example. And the sentence doesn't have any explicit or implicit definition of that something.

    Now that I think of that, there's one more awkward thing in the sentence. Unlike an example, a man is always a man, nevermind the context. But still, the following sentence is not what one would expect to hear.

    There is such a man on whom I can rely.

    "Such" is simply redundant here.

  5. #15
    zorank's Avatar
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    Default Re: "a such example" or "such example"

    Aha, what about

    "Is there AN EXAMPLE OF a green cat?"

    would that be correct?

  6. #16
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    Default Re: "a such example" or "such example"

    Quote Originally Posted by birdeen's call View Post
    An example is always of something. ....
    example is a countable noun, right?

    if yes, why then "example of"?

    I am getting dizzy. Have to mediate for a while on what you are trying to convey.

    Thanks!

  7. #17
    birdeen's call is offline VIP Member
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    Default Re: "a such example" or "such example"

    Quote Originally Posted by zorank View Post
    Aha, what about

    "Is there AN EXAMPLE OF a green cat?"

    would that be correct?
    Yes.

  8. #18
    birdeen's call is offline VIP Member
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    Default Re: "a such example" or "such example"

    Quote Originally Posted by zorank View Post
    By the way, shouldn't "an example" imply an instance of the class example? There are many elements (infinitely many) in this class. All possible examples one can meet in life. I am wondering about the possibility of the existence of one element that would exemplify a situation where a cat is green.

    The reason why I am asking is, of course, related to the use of the indefinite article.
    Yes, "an example" would be an instance of the class of examples, did this class exist. It doesn't. We can think of a the class of examples of green cats (being actually equal to the class of green cats) but the class of examples? I can't imagine any use of such a notion.

  9. #19
    zorank's Avatar
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    Default Re: "a such example" or "such example"

    Quote Originally Posted by birdeen's call View Post
    Yes, "an example" would be an instance of the class of examples, did this class exist. It doesn't.... I can't imagine any use of such a notion.
    That's it. You just pointed the finger at the problem! The problem is that such class does not exist. Hmmm... interesting. Have to think more about the other things you said.

  10. #20
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    Default Re: "a such example" or "such example"

    Quote Originally Posted by birdeen's call View Post
    But still, the following sentence is not what one would expect to hear.

    There is such a man on whom I can rely.

    "Such" is simply redundant here.
    While it's admittedly very unlikely, I think that that one is possible:

    A:What we need is a cunning, resourceful, brave, possibly foolhardy, man, but at the same time one who will not let you down.
    B: There is such a man on whom I can rely
    . He worked for me in MI6.

    I don't think 'such' is necessarily redundant here. B is speaking of a man of that type (cunning, resourceful, etc) on whom he can rely, not just 'a man'.

    If that is posible, then I suppose one could make a context for "Is there such an example where a cat is green? - if we add a bracketed, unuttered, thought:

    A: Let's take the example of a cat that's green.
    B: Is there such an example (that is to say), where a cat is green?

    However, such examples are very artificial. I think that it's fair to say that they are not what one would normally call acceptable English.

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