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  1. #21
    birdeen's call is offline VIP Member
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    Default Re: "a such example" or "such example"

    Quote Originally Posted by fivejedjon View Post
    While it's admittedly very unlikely, I think that that one is possible:

    A:What we need is a cunning, resourceful, brave, possibly foolhardy, man, but at the same time one who will not let you down.
    B: There is such a man on whom I can rely
    . He worked for me in MI6.

    I don't think 'such' is necessarily redundant here. B is speaking of a man of that type (cunning, resourceful, etc) on whom he can rely, not just 'a man'.
    I think I can defend by asking whether this sentence doesn't need a comma before "on whom". "Such" defines the man already, doesn't it?

  2. #22
    5jj's Avatar
    5jj is offline VIP Member
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    Default Re: "a such example" or "such example"

    Quote Originally Posted by birdeen's call View Post
    I think I can defend by asking whether this sentence doesn't need a comma before "on whom". "Such" defines the man already, doesn't it?
    I wondered about that. I think we have these two possibilities:

    1.
    A:What we need is a cunning, resourceful, brave, and possibly foolhardy, man.
    B: There is such a man, on whom I can rely. He worked for me in MI6.

    Here 'such' defines 'a man', and we have a non-defining relative clause following..

    2.
    A:What we need is a cunning, resourceful, brave, possibly foolhardy, man, but at the same time one who will not let you down.
    B: There is such a man on whom I can rely
    . He worked for me in MI6.

    Here 'such' defines 'a man on whom I can rely', which contains a defining relative clause.

  3. #23
    BobK's Avatar
    BobK is offline Harmless drudge
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    Default Re: "a such example" or "such example"

    Quote Originally Posted by birdeen's call View Post
    Actually, I would also like to know why these sentences sound awkward. I agree with zorank that

    Is there such an example where a cat is green?

    employs correct syntax. It is also understandable but there's something wrong with it. I think this is what. The sentence looks as if the speaker thought there was a class of entities called "examples" and were asking whether some of them were examples of a green cat. But this is not how we understand examples. Nothing is an example by itself. Things can be used as examples.
    It would be OK if it had a comma and if it meant something other than what is intended.

    Is there such an example [referring to a kind of example given previously - e.g. 'kinds of coloured cat'], where a cat is green?

    This use of 'where' to mean 'in which there is' is dubious, but not uncommon.

    As to there being a subject and so on, there are innumerable examples of such sentences. I think it was Chomsky, or maybe someone he was quoting, who gave the example of 'Colourless green ideas sleep furiously'. Being grammatical isn't a guarantee of naturalness.

    b
    Last edited by BobK; 02-Oct-2011 at 11:26. Reason: Tweak format

  4. #24
    BobK's Avatar
    BobK is offline Harmless drudge
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    Default Re: "a such example" or "such example"

    Quote Originally Posted by fivejedjon View Post
    No.

    Is there an example of green cats?
    ...
    Quote Originally Posted by zorank View Post
    Aha, what about

    "Is there AN EXAMPLE OF a green cat?"

    would that be correct?
    ... as 5jj's original responseshows . There's really no need for all this il-feeling. 5jj can sometimes seem a little short-tempered, but the first thing he says is often worth listening to.

    b

  5. #25
    5jj's Avatar
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    Default Re: "a such example" or "such example"

    Quote Originally Posted by BobK View Post
    5jj can sometimes seem a little short-tempered,
    Moi? I have never heard such rubbish. I am the most even-tempered person I know. If you dare show your face on this forum again, I'll make mincemeat of you.



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