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Thread: 5 forms?

  1. #1
    keannu's Avatar
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    Default 5 forms?

    In every Korean grammar book, they classify all the sentences to the following 5 forms, but I don't know if these forms are from native speakers' original grammar or just Korean-made ones. Some exceptional sentences such as "He cracked open the door" don't fit any of them, fitting close to 5th form. I'm just curious if these are taught even in native speakers' educational course.

    1st form - S+V - A dog made toward the gate (V: complete intransitive verb)
    2nd form - S+V+C - You will make a good wife. (V: incomplete intransitive verb )
    3rd form - S+V+O - He made a Christmas card. (V: complete transitive verb)
    4th form - S+V+IO+DO - My dad made me a doll. (V: dative verb)
    5th form - S+V+O+OC - He made his son a scientist.(V:incomplete transitive verb )

    cf) C:complement, O:Object, IO-Indirect Object, DO- Direct Object, OC- Object Complement
    Last edited by keannu; 09-Nov-2011 at 00:54.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: 5 forms?

    No. And what does 'He cracked open the door' mean? I've met 'cracked open' in the context of bottles of champagne, but... Is it supposed to mean 'He opened the door a crack' (in which 'a crack' is just an adverbial phrase)?

    I've met such lists of sentence forms, but not in regular school English lessons. I think there's a list like this in David Crystal's Encyclopedia of Language - I'll check.

    b

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    Default Re: 5 forms?

    Here is somebody who offers ten patterns:HOME
    Here's a five-pattern suggestion: English Sentence Patterns (For ESL Students)
    Here's a six: http://englishmistakeswelcome.com/sentence_patterns.htm

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    birdeen's call is offline VIP Member
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    Default Re: 5 forms?

    Quote Originally Posted by BobK View Post
    No. And what does 'He cracked open the door' mean? I've met 'cracked open' in the context of bottles of champagne, but... Is it supposed to mean 'He opened the door a crack' (in which 'a crack' is just an adverbial phrase)?
    I believe keannu is thinking about something like

    He kicked the door open.

    It does indeed agree with the fifth pattern.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: 5 forms?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gillnetter View Post
    To crack open a door is a common term in the western US. I usually hear it this way, "He cracked open the door a bit", or, "crack open the door and let some air in", or, "I told him to crack open the door slowly."
    This is also quite common in the northeast and works as well for windows.

    Note that the OP read "He cracked opened the door." Is that a typo or does that appear in a Korean grammar book?

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    Default Re: 5 forms?

    Quote Originally Posted by riquecohen View Post
    This is also quite common in the northeast and works as well for windows.

    Note that the OP read "He cracked opened the door." Is that a typo or does that appear in a Korean grammar book?
    I just made a mistake for "He cracked open the door", sorry!
    I just wanted to know if it belongs to 5th pattern as a variation, and did try to explain if we have to depend on 5 patterns or any other pattern rules as 5jj showed. Does 5 pattern matter to native speakers? I don't think it does to them, but to easily understand English for foreigners, it is important to some extent.

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    birdeen's call is offline VIP Member
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    Default Re: 5 forms?

    Quote Originally Posted by keannu View Post
    I just wanted to know if it belongs to 5th pattern as a variation
    Yes. It the same, only word order is changed.

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    Default Re: 5 forms?

    Quote Originally Posted by keannu View Post
    .... Does 5 pattern matter to native speakers? I don't think it does to them, but to easily understand English for foreigners, it is important to some extent.
    I think you're right both times (that native speakers don't give it that much thought, and that it's important to some extent).


    In this connection I recall a surreal joke that could be exposed to this sort of analysis:

    A. My mother made me a homosexual.
    B Ooh, if I gave her the wool do you think she'd make me one?

    (Today it would just be 'My mother made me gay' - which would spoil the joke - it needs a noun complement.)

    b
    Last edited by BobK; 09-Nov-2011 at 11:14. Reason: Fix typo

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    Default Re: 5 forms?

    Quote Originally Posted by BobK View Post
    I think you're right [...] that it's important to some extent).
    I agree, but PLEASE, Keannu, don't start submitting lots of sentences and asking us why they appear not to fit into one of the patterns. That I wouldn't be happy about .

    The patterns may be a useful guide, but they do not cover all possibilities, especially in speech.

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    Default Re: 5 forms?

    Quote Originally Posted by 5jj View Post
    I agree, but PLEASE, Keannu, don't start submitting lots of sentences and asking us why they appear not to fit into one of the patterns. That I wouldn't be happy about .

    The patterns may be a useful guide, but they do not cover all possibilities, especially in speech.
    My intention was to ask if the 5 patterns are also common and widely accepted among native speakers and grammarians as I have been used to it for a long time. But one day I abruptly thought it might be wrong (so the "crack open" example was just an evidence to contradict it), so I felt the great need to verify it by asking the teachers here. I didn't mean to complicate the question, but just quoted the basic patterns.

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