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  1. #1
    vkhu is offline Member
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    Default Joining sentences using V-ing

    I'm a little confused here. I have no idea when to use "having + V-ing" and when to use just "V-ing". For example:

    "He found no one at home. He left the house in a bad temper"

    ->Finding no one at home, he left the house in a bad temper
    ->Having found no one at home, he left the house in a bad temper

    Which one of the above is correct and why? Some one explain it to me please.

  2. #2
    TheParser is offline Key Member
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    Default Re: Joining sentences using V-ing

    Quote Originally Posted by vkhu View Post
    I'm a little confused here. I have no idea when to use "having + V-ing" and when to use just "V-ing". For example:

    "He found no one at home. He left the house in a bad temper"

    ->Finding no one at home, he left the house in a bad temper
    ->Having found no one at home, he left the house in a bad temper

    Which one of the above is correct and why? Some one explain it to me please.

    NOT A TEACHER


    (1) Of course, I shall let a teacher explain the difference between "finding" and

    "having found."

    (a) I only wish to make these points:

    (i) Your two sentences with "finding" and "having found" are usually used only in

    writing. If you were to speak that way, people might laugh at you or think that you were rather strange!



    (ii) In regular conversation, we would probably say:

    He found no one at home, so he left in a bad mood.

    ("He found no one at home. He left in a bad mood" is also "good" English, but

    people usually do not speak or write such short sentences. Using "so" makes it

    smoother.)

  3. #3
    vkhu is offline Member
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    Default Re: Joining sentences using V-ing

    Quote Originally Posted by TheParser View Post
    NOT A TEACHER


    (1) Of course, I shall let a teacher explain the difference between "finding" and

    "having found."

    (a) I only wish to make these points:

    (i) Your two sentences with "finding" and "having found" are usually used only in

    writing. If you were to speak that way, people might laugh at you or think that you were rather strange!



    (ii) In regular conversation, we would probably say:

    He found no one at home, so he left in a bad mood.

    ("He found no one at home. He left in a bad mood" is also "good" English, but

    people usually do not speak or write such short sentences. Using "so" makes it

    smoother.)
    Yeah, I get you point. But this is for my essay.

  4. #4
    TheParser is offline Key Member
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    Default Re: Joining sentences using V-ing

    Quote Originally Posted by vkhu View Post
    Yeah, I get you point. But this is for my essay.


    A teacher will be with you shortly (soon).

    Good luck.

  5. #5
    Barb_D's Avatar
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    Default Re: Joining sentences using V-ing

    Quote Originally Posted by vkhu View Post
    Yeah, I get you point. But this is for my essay.
    I'd like to point out that this a not a very gracious way to express appreciation for someone who tried to help you.

    I don't find much difference in real meaning in the two sentences.

    Finding ..., he left -- seems to emphasize the two actions. He looked, he found no one, he left.


    Having found..., he left -- seems to emphasize the "state" he was in; it's about him. It's quite clear that the reason he left was because no one was home. It also feels like this has been pushed a little further into the past.

    But really, I wouldn't feel it was unusual if you used one instead of the other.
    I'm not a teacher, but I write for a living. Please don't ask me about 2nd conditionals, but I'm a safe bet for what reads well in (American) English.

  6. #6
    shannico's Avatar
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    Default Re: Joining sentences using V-ing

    Quote Originally Posted by vkhu View Post
    I'm a little confused here. I have no idea when to use "having + V-ing" and when to use just "V-ing". For example:

    "He found no one at home. He left the house in a bad temper"

    1) Finding no one at home, he left the house in a bad temper
    2) Having found no one at home, he left the house in a bad temper

    Which one of the above is correct and why? Some one explain it to me please.
    They are both grammatically correct.
    #1 lays emphasis on the explanation why he left the house (He left the house in a bad temper BECAUSE he hadn't found anybody there)
    #2 stresses the sequence of the action, i.e. first he called in and then he left the house (After finding nobody at home, he left the house in a bad temper)

    Other examples may be
    Having thought she was at home, I called in.
    Being sick, I didn't go to the party.

    These structures would be more common in written English though.




    I hope it helps.

  7. #7
    5jj's Avatar
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    Default Re: Joining sentences using V-ing

    Quote Originally Posted by shannico View Post
    #1 lays emphasis on the explanation why he left the house (He left the house in a bad temper BECAUSE he hadn't found anybody there)
    Not necessarily.

    [...] Other examples may be: Being sick, I didn't go to the party.
    In this particular case, there is is a clear time-reference difference between 'being sick' (I was sick at the time of the party) and 'Having been sick' (I had been sick before the party, and, possibly, was still not fully recovered at the time of the party).
    5
    Please do not edit your question after it has received a response. Such editing can make the response hard for others to understand.


  8. #8
    TheParser is offline Key Member
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    Default Re: Joining sentences using V-ing

    [QUOTE=vkhu;827542]


    NOT A TEACHER


    (1) A moderator and a teacher have both given you excellent answers.

    (2) I understand how important this is to you. I know that students in many countries

    study very hard in order to pass the examinations. Their future depends on those

    examinations (and essays).

    (3) Besides what the moderator and teacher told you, I have also found some

    information that you may find helpful.

    (4) It comes from a grammar book entitled A Grammar of Present-Day English by

    Professors Pence and Emery.

    (a) You are a learner, and I am a learner. We like rules, don't we!

    (i) Well, here is their "rule":


    When the times expressed by the participle and by the principal verb are

    practically but not actually contemporaneous , the present tense is generally

    used instead of the perfect.

    I think that it means something like this in regular English: When the two actions

    follow each other very closely, use "-ing," not "having + past participle."

    (4) As the moderator told us, either of your sentences means about the same. It

    is only my guess that the better answer would be: Finding no one at home [8:30},

    he left the house in a bad mood [8:31].

    (5) Now here is an example from their book that shows when you MUST use the

    perfect:

    Having worked in every capacity from janitor to vice president, the new president is

    the best trained man the company ever had in that office, [P.S. Not important, but I

    would write "best-trained."]

    As you can see, it would be ridiculous and "crazy" to write: Working in every ....

    That would mean that the new president is now working in every capacity from janitor

    to vice president.

    (6) One more example from their book. Because I am quoting so much from it, I had

    better further identify it: It was published by the Macmillian Publishing Company in New York and Collier Macmillian Publishers in London; copyright in 1947 and 1963.

    (a) Completing their business, the committee voted to adjourn.

    (b) Having completed their business, the committee voted to adjourn.

    The authors feel that both are "correct." Just as the moderator told us.

    (7) I think (think) that you could use the perfect in something like:


    Having found no one at home [8:30], he is now [10:30] in a restaurant eating

    all by himself and crying his heart out.

    In other words, it seems to be a matter of timing.
    Last edited by TheParser; 29-Nov-2011 at 14:36.

  9. #9
    shannico's Avatar
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    Default Re: Joining sentences using V-ing

    I think this link provides a very good way of explaining these two structures, which may be very confusing for learners of English even at advanced levels.

    English grammar in use: a self-study ... - Raymond Murphy - Google Libri

  10. #10
    5jj's Avatar
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    Default Re: Joining sentences using V-ing

    Quote Originally Posted by shannico View Post
    I think this link provides a very good way of explaining these two structures, which may be very confusing for learners of English even at advanced levels.

    English grammar in use: a self-study ... - Raymond Murphy - Google Libri
    Unfortunately, Murphy says (Section C) "When one action happens before another action, we use having (done) for the first action".

    This seems to suggest we always use the having (done) form. This is not the case. There are cases in which this form is the only possible one to suggest sequence of events - I considered one in the 'being/having been sick' example; TheParser's 'janitor/president' sentence was another example. However, as Barb suggested, there are many sentences in which either form is possible.
    Please do not edit your question after it has received a response. Such editing can make the response hard for others to understand.


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