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  1. #1
    ridvann is offline Member
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    Default simple past-present perfect

    I have seen a question about simple past ,and I want to ask a question too.
    Does 'many years before' contain the same rule? I know that 'many years before' can be used with 'present perfect tense' ,but the simple past tense?

    The idiom existed many years before the rock anthem. (It is correct)

    But, if we will say in this way bellow?

    -The idiom existed many years before.
    or
    -I saw that movie before. (I know that we can use it with present perfect tense)

    Are they correct?

  2. #2
    emsr2d2's Avatar
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    Default Re: simple past-present perfect

    Quote Originally Posted by ridvann View Post
    I have seen a question about the simple past, and I want to ask a question too.
    Does 'many years before' contain the same rule? I know that 'many years before' can be used with 'present perfect tense', but the simple past tense?

    The idiom existed many years before the rock anthem. (It is correct)

    But, if we will say in this way below?

    -The idiom existed many years before.
    or
    -I saw that movie before. (I know that we can use it with present perfect tense)

    Are they correct?
    The idiom existed many years before ... needs to be followed by what it existed before.

    I have seen this/that movie before = this is fine as a standalone sentence.

    I saw that movie before I saw Jaws.

    Please review your positioning of commas. They go immediately after a word, then there is a space, then the next word.

  3. #3
    bhaisahab's Avatar
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    Default Re: simple past-present perfect

    Quote Originally Posted by emsr2d2 View Post
    The idiom existed many years before ... needs to be followed by what it existed before.
    Sorry ems, I disagree.

  4. #4
    ridvann is offline Member
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    Default Re: simple past-present perfect

    Oh...I have been so confused now. Can we use them as I wrote or not? :(

  5. #5
    bhaisahab's Avatar
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    Default Re: simple past-present perfect

    Quote Originally Posted by ridvann View Post
    Oh...I have been so confused now. Can we use them as I wrote or not? :(
    "The idiom existed many years before." This is OK IMO.

  6. #6
    ridvann is offline Member
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    Default Re: simple past-present perfect

    Thanks for answering ,but can't we use ''many years before'' with the simple past tense? Thanks a lot...

  7. #7
    5jj's Avatar
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    Default Re: simple past-present perfect

    Quote Originally Posted by bhaisahab View Post
    "The idiom existed many years before." This is OK IMO.
    I don't feel that this can stand alone. I think it's acceptable here:

    "R C Postule claims that the idiom was first recorded in a book published in 1743. (However) the idiom existed many years before.We have only to look at the 17th century folksong Woggling in the Grunge' to see..."

    If it is not to be taken as meaning 'before now', there needs to be a time-reference point somewhere, in my opinion.

  8. #8
    emsr2d2's Avatar
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    Default Re: simple past-present perfect

    Quote Originally Posted by 5jj View Post
    I don't feel that this can stand alone. I think it's acceptable here:

    "R C Postule claims that the idiom was first recorded in a book published in 1743. (However) the idiom existed many years before.We have only to look at the 17th century folksong Woggling in the Grunge' to see..."

    If it is not to be taken as meaning 'before now', there needs to be a time-reference point somewhere, in my opinion.
    Thanks 5jj. That's pretty much what I meant - that it couldn't stand completely alone. The simple addition of "However" in your version makes it perfectly acceptable, in my opinion too.

  9. #9
    ridvann is offline Member
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    Default Re: simple past-present perfect

    -"R C Postule claims that the idiom was first recorded in a book published in 1743. Actually, he tried to publish it too many times before .We have only to look at the 17th century folksong Woggling in the Grunge' to see..."

    If we construct a sentence like that while mention about in past, I think we can use 'many times before' ,and it doesn't convey 'before now'. For this reason (in my opinion), we can use it with the simple past tense, but I would like you to help me and say please that I am wrong or not. Thanks...
    Last edited by ridvann; 06-Dec-2011 at 00:06.

  10. #10
    5jj's Avatar
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    Default Re: simple past-present perfect

    Quote Originally Posted by ridvann View Post
    -"R C Postule claims that the idiom was first recorded in a book published in 1743. Actually, he tried to publish it too many times before .We have only to look at the 17th century folksong Woggling in the Grunge' to see..."

    If we construct a sentence like that while mentioning about in the past, I think we can use 'many times before' ,and it doesn't convey 'before now'. For this reason (in my opinion), we can use it with the simple past tense, but I would like you to help me and say please that whether I am wrong or not. Thanks...
    Of course it does not mean 'before now'. It means 'before 1743'. That was precisely the point I was making in a previous post: If it is not to be taken as meaning 'before now', there needs to be a time-reference point somewhere, in my opinion.

    We do not need the 'too'.

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