Results 1 to 9 of 9
  1. #1
    keannu's Avatar
    keannu is offline Key Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Student or Learner
      • Native Language:
      • Korean
      • Home Country:
      • South Korea
      • Current Location:
      • South Korea
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    4,252
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default , held in memory of Moses and Aaron

    Why is there a comma in ", held in"? What is the difference between with and without comma?
    Usually a comma is inserted to describe a farther thing, but this is describing the closest one, festival.

    ex)Each year in Twinsburg, Ohio, the world's largest gathering of twins takes place. Thousands of sets of twins attend the festival, held in memory of Moses and Aaron Wilcox, the pair of twin brothers who gave Twinsburg its name......
    Last edited by keannu; 29-Dec-2011 at 03:04.

  2. #2
    5jj's Avatar
    5jj is offline VIP Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Retired English Teacher
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • England
      • Current Location:
      • Czech Republic
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    28,169
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: , held in memory of Moses and Aaron

    Quote Originally Posted by keannu View Post
    Why is there a comma in ", held in"? What is the difference between with and without comma? The commas around", (which is) held in memory of Moses and Aaron Wilcox," make this a non-defining clause.
    Usually a comma is inserted to describe a farther thing, but this is describing the closest one, festival. I don't know where you got that idea..
    5
    Please do not edit your question after it has received a response. Such editing can make the response hard for others to understand.


  3. #3
    keannu's Avatar
    keannu is offline Key Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Student or Learner
      • Native Language:
      • Korean
      • Home Country:
      • South Korea
      • Current Location:
      • South Korea
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    4,252
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: , held in memory of Moses and Aaron

    Quote Originally Posted by 5jj View Post
    5
    Can you tell me how it is interpreted as a non-defining phrase?

  4. #4
    5jj's Avatar
    5jj is offline VIP Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Retired English Teacher
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • England
      • Current Location:
      • Czech Republic
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    28,169
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: , held in memory of Moses and Aaron

    Quote Originally Posted by keannu View Post
    Can you tell me how it is interpreted as a non-defining phrase?
    Each year in Twinsburg, Ohio, the world's largest gathering of twins takes place. Thousands of sets of twins attend the festival, 1.held in memory of Moses and Aaron Wilcox, 2. the pair of twin brothers 3.who gave Twinsburg its name)......

    1. (in blue): this gives us extra information about the festival. It (and the following words) could be omitted, and the sentence would still make sense. Non-defining.
    2, (underlined): This gives us extra information about Moses and Aaron Wilcox. Ot could be omitted , and the sentence would still make sense. Non defining.
    3. (In red): This tells us which twin brothers we are talking about. It cannot be omitted. Defining.

    In the two non-defining clauses, the commas wcould be replaced by brackets. with the defining clause, there is no comma.

    It would be possible to say and write #1 as a defining clause, with no comma preceding it.
    Please do not edit your question after it has received a response. Such editing can make the response hard for others to understand.


  5. #5
    Rover_KE is offline Moderator
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Retired English Teacher
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • England
      • Current Location:
      • England
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    13,074
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: , held in memory of Moses and Aaron

    Could a simpler explanation of the use of the comma in question be that in such a long sentence that's where the writer thought you'd want to take a breath if you were reading it aloud?

    Rover

  6. #6
    Raymott's Avatar
    Raymott is offline VIP Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Academic
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • Australia
      • Current Location:
      • Australia
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    18,298
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: , held in memory of Moses and Aaron

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover_KE View Post
    Could a simpler explanation of the use of the comma in question be that in such a long sentence that's where the writer thought you'd want to take a breath if you were reading it aloud?

    Rover
    Only if the author was ignorant of the use of a comma here to differentiate the type of clause. Any writer familiar with this concept would pause to consider whether he wanted a restrictive or non-restrictive clause, and then either put a comma in or not.

  7. #7
    Rover_KE is offline Moderator
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Retired English Teacher
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • England
      • Current Location:
      • England
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    13,074
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: , held in memory of Moses and Aaron

    Well I'm not a grammarian, you see, and I doubt that more than 1% of native speakers know the difference between those types of clause (or care).

    Rover

  8. #8
    5jj's Avatar
    5jj is offline VIP Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Retired English Teacher
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • England
      • Current Location:
      • Czech Republic
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    28,169
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: , held in memory of Moses and Aaron

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover_KE View Post
    I doubt that more than 1% of native speakers know the difference between those types of clause (or care).
    You are possibly right - as far as the labels are concerned. However, those people who use both types in speech (and non-defining clauses are not that common in everyday speech) will indicate the difference in meaning by appropriate pauses. Similarly, Many people who do use them in writing will have learnt the appropriate punctuation.

    The important thing is not the labels, but the fact that there is a real difference in meaning between the two types.
    Please do not edit your question after it has received a response. Such editing can make the response hard for others to understand.


  9. #9
    Raymott's Avatar
    Raymott is offline VIP Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Academic
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • Australia
      • Current Location:
      • Australia
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    18,298
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: , held in memory of Moses and Aaron

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover_KE View Post
    Well I'm not a grammarian, you see, and I doubt that more than 1% of native speakers know the difference between those types of clause (or care).

    Rover
    That's lamentably true, I suppose, but the writer of that sentence has correctly used commas before and after that example, so the odds are far greater than 1% that s/he knows the rule. Add to that the correct use of capital letters, punctuation and grammar, and I think it's not unlikely that the writer of that sentence knows, and has used, the rule.

Similar Threads

  1. [General] Question from BBC article:Sefer Torah and the Book of Moses
    By chebu in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 07-Mar-2011, 05:18
  2. is scheduled VS is going to be held VS to be held
    By majid72 in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 10-Feb-2009, 12:11
  3. held up
    By jctgf in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 19-Nov-2007, 01:14
  4. Held or to be held?
    By Abusaad in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 16-Aug-2005, 10:13

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Hotchalk