Results 1 to 10 of 10
  1. #1
    keannu's Avatar
    keannu is offline Key Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Student or Learner
      • Native Language:
      • Korean
      • Home Country:
      • South Korea
      • Current Location:
      • South Korea
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    4,338
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Your laptop doesn't seem to be in the den

    The answer is c, but considering d, "would" sometimes can be presumption even without if-clause like "My friend is going to a party, and it would be fun."
    Why can't d be an answer? Or did they make it wrong?

    A: Your laptop doesn't seem to be in the den.
    B:My sister ___c___ be using it in the kitchen.
    a.will
    b.need
    c.must
    d.would

  2. #2
    5jj's Avatar
    5jj is offline VIP Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Retired English Teacher
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • England
      • Current Location:
      • Czech Republic
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    28,168
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Your laptop doesn't seem to be in the den

    a and c ar possible. d is possible only in the unlikely sense of annoyance that this (unreasonable) behaviour is typical of the sister; 'would' would be stressed in that sense.
    Last edited by 5jj; 06-Jan-2012 at 09:56.

  3. #3
    keannu's Avatar
    keannu is offline Key Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Student or Learner
      • Native Language:
      • Korean
      • Home Country:
      • South Korea
      • Current Location:
      • South Korea
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    4,338
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Your laptop doesn't seem to be in the den

    Quote Originally Posted by 5jj View Post
    a and c ar possible. c is possible only in the unlikely sense of annoyance that this (unreasonable) behaviour is typical of the sister; 'would' would be stressed in that sense.
    You mean a.will and c.must are possible, but d.would is possible only in the unlikely sense? So I think you mistyped d for c.

  4. #4
    5jj's Avatar
    5jj is offline VIP Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Retired English Teacher
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • England
      • Current Location:
      • Czech Republic
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    28,168
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Your laptop doesn't seem to be in the den

    Quote Originally Posted by keannu View Post
    You mean a.will and c.must are possible, but d.would is possible only in the unlikely sense? So I think you mistyped d for c.
    Sorrry. I have changed it.

  5. #5
    keannu's Avatar
    keannu is offline Key Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Student or Learner
      • Native Language:
      • Korean
      • Home Country:
      • South Korea
      • Current Location:
      • South Korea
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    4,338
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Your laptop doesn't seem to be in the den

    Quote Originally Posted by 5jj View Post
    Sorrry. I have changed it.
    Sorry, but how can I tell the nuance difference between simple presumption like "The party would be fun" and abnormal behavior of "The sister would be in the den"?
    I thought "would" is just presumption without any degree of intensity if I don't mistunderstand your explanation.

  6. #6
    5jj's Avatar
    5jj is offline VIP Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Retired English Teacher
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • England
      • Current Location:
      • Czech Republic
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    28,168
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Your laptop doesn't seem to be in the den

    Part of the idea of your 'the party would be fun' is 'to be there' - i.e., 'if I were to be there'. When speaking about the whereabouts of the computer and the sister, 'will' expresses certainty, 'must' logical deduction' (you have even got me labelling!). 'Would' is not natural in this situation.

  7. #7
    keannu's Avatar
    keannu is offline Key Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Student or Learner
      • Native Language:
      • Korean
      • Home Country:
      • South Korea
      • Current Location:
      • South Korea
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    4,338
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Your laptop doesn't seem to be in the den

    Quote Originally Posted by 5jj View Post
    Part of the idea of your 'the party would be fun' is 'to be there' - i.e., 'if I were to be there'. When speaking about the whereabouts of the computer and the sister, 'will' expresses certainty, 'must' logical deduction' (you have even got me labelling!). 'Would' is not natural in this situation.
    I haven't completely understood the meaning of "would" here. My American friend once wrote to me saying "I think you work for a company in Korea, it would be fun." He seemed to mean that it may be fun not for him, but for me. I couldn't infer any conditional part related to him in there. And in many other would clauses, maybe I may have made a mistake not inferring conditional mood.
    I'm sorry, is the sentence like "If it were my sister, she would be using it in the kitchen"? I still don't understand why it sounds unnatural, finding no way to explain to others.

  8. #8
    Barb_D's Avatar
    Barb_D is offline Moderator
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Other
      • Native Language:
      • American English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    17,244
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Your laptop doesn't seem to be in the den

    I think after articles, the word "would" might be the hardest word to explain.

    What's that noise?
    Oh, that would be John again, practicing his drum solo.

    -- Here would is used in a way that is similary to "that's must be John" but to express annoyance, as 5jj says.



    I would think (ha, there it is again, and I didn't even mean to use it on purpose there) that your friend meant it would be fun for HIM to work there with you, if you were already working there. Of course, his comma splice tells me he may not pay attention to the finer rules of grammar, so who knows.

    If I worked there, it would be fun.
    I'm not a teacher, but I write for a living. Please don't ask me about 2nd conditionals, but I'm a safe bet for what reads well in (American) English.

  9. #9
    keannu's Avatar
    keannu is offline Key Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Student or Learner
      • Native Language:
      • Korean
      • Home Country:
      • South Korea
      • Current Location:
      • South Korea
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    4,338
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Your laptop doesn't seem to be in the den

    Quote Originally Posted by Barb_D View Post
    I think after articles, the word "would" might be the hardest word to explain.

    What's that noise?
    Oh, that would be John again, practicing his drum solo.

    -- Here would is used in a way that is similary to "that's must be John" but to express annoyance, as 5jj says.



    I would think (ha, there it is again, and I didn't even mean to use it on purpose there) that your friend meant it would be fun for HIM to work there with you, if you were already working there. Of course, his comma splice tells me he may not pay attention to the finer rules of grammar, so who knows.

    If I worked there, it would be fun.
    Does "would" always have a hidden or implicit if-clause even when if-clause doesn't appear? Does it always have conditional moods? I just thought it is similar to "may" or "might" for presumption, and in the past, I studied a lot of conditional moods, but I came to ignore it as it's confusing to tell if-clause's "would" and without if-clause "would", Judging from what you said, "would" always seems to accompany conditional part.

    ex)We are having a party tomorroow. He would come(=If it were him, he would come)
    I just thought "He would come" is just similar to "He may come".

    Okay, I think you will approve of my rediscovering idea of "would", but is the annoyance case-specific? In my friend's "It would be fun", that doesn't give any annoyoing nuance. So does the context of the sister's whereabout in the kitchen give such irritating nuance? I can't find any clue to the annoyance.

  10. #10
    5jj's Avatar
    5jj is offline VIP Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Retired English Teacher
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • England
      • Current Location:
      • Czech Republic
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    28,168
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Your laptop doesn't seem to be in the den

    Quote Originally Posted by keannu View Post
    Does "would" always have a hidden or implicit if-clause even when if-clause doesn't appear? No
    Does it always have conditional moods? No

    Judging from what you said, "would" always seems to accompany conditional part. No
    I'll start my reponse with Barb's words "I think after articles, the word "would" might be the hardest word to explain."

    On second thought, I'll end there.

Similar Threads

  1. good den
    By birdeen's call in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 06-Dec-2010, 15:28
  2. We' re living in a den of thieves
    By Conoscenza SIlente in forum English Idioms and Sayings
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-Apr-2010, 11:47
  3. laptop vs notebook
    By Abstract Idea in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 12-Nov-2009, 23:53
  4. den or burrow?
    By jirickova in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 20-Nov-2006, 14:34

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •