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  1. #11
    Raymott's Avatar
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    Default Re: He was 24 in 2000, when I was only five years old.

    Quote Originally Posted by keannu View Post
    I seem to have seen phrases like "In the year 2002 when Korea advanced to the World Cup semifinal,....." without a comma, and this concept of adding commas is new to me.
    No doubt you did see that. But you were asking about what was correct, not what you were likely to see. I would have put a comma after 2002 in the above, because it's parenthetical, not because the clause is non-defining. (At least, I'm guessing it's parenthetical - it's hard to say without the complete sentence).

    I can see several possibilities here:
    In 2002 when Korea advanced to the semifinal, Koreans went wild. (Not parenthetical)
    In 2002, when Korea advanced to the semifinal, professional football was in a state of chaos. (Parenthetical)

  2. #12
    BobSmith is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: He was 24 in 2000, when I was only five years old.

    Quote Originally Posted by BobK View Post
    Not for me. As Raymott says, there's no ambiguity without it, but if we all stopped doing things on those grounds language would be pretty anarachic . Sometimes you do something because it's the right thing to do.
    Awesome word, I'd never heard it before. Is it spelled correctly? Should it be "anarchic"?
    Last edited by BobSmith; 26-Jan-2012 at 15:55.

  3. #13
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    Default Re: He was 24 in 2000, when I was only five years old.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymott View Post
    No doubt you did see that. But you were asking about what was correct, not what you were likely to see. I would have put a comma after 2002 in the above, because it's parenthetical, not because the clause is non-defining. (At least, I'm guessing it's parenthetical - it's hard to say without the complete sentence).

    I can see several possibilities here:
    In 2002 when Korea advanced to the semifinal, Koreans went wild. (Not parenthetical)
    In 2002, when Korea advanced to the semifinal, professional football was in a state of chaos. (Parenthetical)
    I may not understand the meaning of "non-defining clauses", can you tell me how to tell "non-defining phrases" from defining ones? So many relative pronouns and relative adverbs define the antecedent like "The doctor who showed me kindness is famous", etc
    I can't understand how some clauses become comments, and others become defining ones, not knowing the criteria.

    ex)In 2002 when Korea advanced to the semifinal, Koreans went wild. (Not parenthetical)

  4. #14
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    JohnParis is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: He was 24 in 2000, when I was only five years old.

    Sorry to post this so late, but I have always maintained that by specifying a time at the beginning of a sentence, the writer can easily avoid confusion.

    In 2000, he was 24 and I was 5.

    Obviously, the comma is necessary.

  5. #15
    Raymott's Avatar
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    Default Re: He was 24 in 2000, when I was only five years old.

    Quote Originally Posted by keannu View Post
    I may not understand the meaning of "non-defining phrases", can you tell me how to tell "non-defining phrases" from defining ones?
    No, please, not again. There was a time a few months ago when that was all I was doing. But if you do a search of posts here for "defining clause" or "restrictive clause", you should find all you want to know. And if you don't, Google these phrases. If you still don't understand, I'd be happy to make another effort.

  6. #16
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    BobK is offline Harmless drudge
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    Default Re: He was 24 in 2000, when I was only five years old.

    Quote Originally Posted by BobSmith View Post
    Awesome word, I'd never heard it before. Is it spelled correctly? Should it be "anarchic"?
    Your spelling's right. I guess I was influenced by those pictures of webs spun by drug-crazed spiders (on the web somewhere - someone with time on their hands may find them!) - a sort of anarchy mediated by arachnidae...?

    b

  7. #17
    BobSmith is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: He was 24 in 2000, when I was only five years old.

    I wonder if the quote

    "Hey, how come Andrew gets to get up? If he gets up, we'll all get up, it'll be anarchy."

    should actually be

    "Hey, how come Andrew gets to get up? If he gets up, we'll all get up, it'll be anarchic."

  8. #18
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    keannu is offline Key Member
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    Default Re: He was 24 in 2000, when I was only five years old.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymott View Post
    No, please, not again. There was a time a few months ago when that was all I was doing. But if you do a search of posts here for "defining clause" or "restrictive clause", you should find all you want to know. And if you don't, Google these phrases. If you still don't understand, I'd be happy to make another effort.
    Thanks a million! Everything was because I didn't know about defining(non-defining)clause, I searched this website and google as you recommended, and read the explanation about them, To prove my comprehension, I'd like to change the original sentence like this.

    ex)He was 24 in 2000, when I was only five years old. (comma needed) => the non-defining clause is not essential to know his age in 2000 as 2000 never changes.
    => He was 24 in the year when I was only five years old.(no comma) => the defining clause is essential to give the information of his age!!!

  9. #19
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    Default Re: He was 24 in 2000, when I was only five years old.

    Just to verify one thing! In almost every Korean English grammar books, non-defining clause of relative pronoun(adverb) is defined as "consecutive usage of relative pronoun(adverb) not "non-defining clause". I was really surprised to see your explanation about "non-defining clause"
    The grammar books define that in consecutive usage, relative pronoun(adverb) should be decomposed to (and, but, for)+antecedent, so they mainly focus on this concept, not additional information, which I have lost so far. So are the following true?
    I wonder which I should focus on more, its being extra information or the decomposition or both.

    who/which= (and, but, for)+antecedent
    1) I passed the ball to Brian, who missed it.
    = I passed the ball to Brian, but he missed it.
    2)This house has a bedroom, which faces south
    = This house has a bedroom, and it faces south.
    Last edited by keannu; 26-Jan-2012 at 22:14.

  10. #20
    5jj's Avatar
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    Default Re: He was 24 in 2000, when I was only five years old.

    I suggest that if you want to get anywhere with English, ignore Korean grammars of English.

    And try to forget the word 'decomposition'.

    ps. keannu, since you joined us thirteen months ago, you have submitted nearly 1,500 posts, at an average rate of 3.78 a day. Most of your posts have been questions, and most have received more than one response – I would guess that you have received an absolute minimum of 2,000 responses to your posts.

    If you spent as much time thinking about the responses as you do formulating new questions, you might find that you needed to ask fewer questions.
    Last edited by 5jj; 26-Jan-2012 at 23:00. Reason: ps added

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